Shapton advice

[kot_blini]

Hello all,

I'm thinking of taking advantage of the MTC sale to jump ship from my Kings to the compact splash and go convenience of the Shaptons. I've pretty familiar with (but do not personally own) the glass 500 and the pro 2k. The glass 500 is great. I can get a good edge off the 2000 but it felt really weird to use because the hardness varies a lot throughout the surface of the stone, and the edges of it load up even with pretty serious chamfering. Honestly I wonder if it's defective since I don't see anyone else mentioning this and it doesn't seem to behave this way in any videos I've seen. The whole experience has left me more interested in the glass stones than the pros.

The glass 4000 seems well-regarded as a finisher. I'm also thinking of getting either the field holder kit that comes with a 2k and 500 (standard thickness), or I could save some cash and just get the 500. My question is, how much versatility would the 2000 add to the 500/4000 duo? Thank you!

Edit to add: I will be sharpening narrow bevel knives. Right now I only have SK steel but interested in hearing about the limits of this kit when it comes to different steel types.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

My base kit is SG500, 2k and 4k. I have zero need to deviate from it and only ever do so just for experimenting. I believe it's a great setup.

 

[kot_blini]

My base kit is SG500, 2k and 4k. I have zero need to deviate from it and only ever do so just for experimenting. I believe it's a great setup.

It sounds like you are glad you have the 2k in addition to the 4k. How do you use them, more as finishers for different steels? Or refreshing an edge with the 2k when 500 aggression isn't needed?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

It sounds like you are glad you have the 2k in addition to the 4k. How do you use them, more as finishers for different steels? Or refreshing an edge with the 2k when 500 aggression isn't needed?

The 4k floats in and out of my rotation as a finisher. It's a perfectly capable finisher this is just the stage I like to experiment the most. It also makes a nice edge maintenance stone.

The 500 is excellent for most edge rebuilding and repairing that doesn't require serious work. If an edge has gone too long, dropping down to the 500 is usually enough to reset everything.

I then go to the 2k. Depending on the knife, I may stop here or I may go to a finisher. But the 2k gives a quite functional edge so you'd be fine with just that if you want to stay minimalist.

 

[kot_blini]

Awesome, thanks for the advice!

 

[JPAU]

I would urge you to also consider the Rockstar series. They’re very similar to the glass series and I have enjoyed mine tremendously.

 

[kot_blini]

I would urge you to also consider the Rockstar series. They’re very similar to the glass series and I have enjoyed mine tremendously.

I would but the field holder kit is pretty appealing, my current stone holder has a strong rubbery smell and I'd love to replace it with something that won't make the kitchen smell like hot tires. Plus I'm a home user so unlikely to wear through stones anytime soon.

 

[daveb]

SG500, SG2000, SG4000 is a good set up and one I esp like for sharpening friends knives. 500 gets it started, 2000 is a good finisher for Germans and other softer steels and a good step towards the 4000 for the Shun and Shun Lites of the world. And it all fits in the field holder. Good for my own when I need a quick and dirty, right damn now sharpening (I normally prefer Gesshin soakers for my stuff).

 

[WhilemyKnifeGentlyWeeps]

I don't think I can pass on that MTC sale. Are there any disadvantages that people have experienced with the double thick shapton glass plates compared to the normal thickness?

 

[aporigine]

I don't think I can pass on that MTC sale. Are there any disadvantages that people have experienced with the double thick shapton glass plates compared to the normal thickness?

I’ve only heard positive things. If you use your stones enough to go through a SG, the double thickness becomes a value proposition.

 

[Vertigo]

I got a Rockstar 500 and 2k glued together as my work stone. To be honest they aren't my favorite, but I'm stubborn and frugal, and have been forcing myself to use them. They're growing on me, though sometimes I wanna just grind the 2k into dust. Your comment about the edges, no matter how much you chamfer, is spot on!

 

[curreel]

I have the 220, 320, 1000, 2000 and 5000.

I find them perfectly satisfactory but prefer the feedback from naniwa chosera/professional stones.

Just personal preference.

 

[kot_blini]

I got a Rockstar 500 and 2k glued together as my work stone. To be honest they aren't my favorite, but I'm stubborn and frugal, and have been forcing myself to use them. They're growing on me, though sometimes I wanna just grind the 2k into dust. Your comment about the edges, no matter how much you chamfer, is spot on!

damn, the glass/rockstars do this too?? maybe I’ll skip the shaptons after all

edit: just ran across your stone rec thread from a few weeks ago. Find anything you were happy with?

 

[enrico]

I think its more important to first discuss how much you need to sharpen your knives. Also, the types of knives you have and their steel.

Do you cook for a living or simply homecooking. I found that pretty much all shaptons aren’t as useful for my daily work knives. Just a preference though as they tend to be a bit finer than advertised. The only one that gets use is the “fine” 5k one for finishing.


The glass ones are alright but clog so quickly

 

[aporigine]

damn, the glass/rockstars do this too?? maybe I’ll skip the shaptons after all

I’d still give’m a go. The one King I have (6k) is a terrible stone. It fails on more alloyed steels, and the simple ones it cuts slowly and with “do I have mittens on?” feedback. If nothing else, a Shapton will impress or disgust you in 1/5 of the time a King* will.

Oh, and in use my stone emits an odor reminiscent of stepped-on dog poo.

*based on my sample size of one

 

[sumis]

fwiw, i have not had the edge load up problem with sg2000, which i really really like as a low finisher or for coarse touch ups.

.

 

[kot_blini]

I think its more important to first discuss how much you need to sharpen your knives. Also, the types of knives you have and their steel.

Do you cook for a living or simply homecooking. I found that pretty much all shaptons aren’t as useful for my daily work knives. Just a preference though as they tend to be a bit finer than advertised. The only one that gets use is the “fine” 5k one for finishing.


The glass ones are alright but clog so quickly

good point. I’m a home cook. Right now I only have nihonko/sk type knives but looking to get some more corrosion resistant stuff soon so I’m hoping for decent versatility. In terms of difficulty, my steel horizons probably wouldn’t extend further than SG2/R2 (and maybe not even that far).

I cut a fair amount of acids so honestly the main thing I want is a better/more convenient finisher to replace the 6k i can pull out for touch ups when edges start to skid on tomatoes.

I’d still give’m a go. The one King I have (6k) is a terrible stone. It fails on more alloyed steels, and the simple ones it cuts slowly and with “do I have mittens on?” feedback. If nothing else, a Shapton will impress or disgust you in 1/5 of the time a King* will.

Oh, and in use my stone emits an odor reminiscent of stepped-on dog poo.

*based on my sample size of one

yeah thats another reason I want to switch

 

[kot_blini]

Non MTC options seem to be:
- Chosera 3k (would get gouken arata version)
- A bbw/some other natural
- JKI has a magnesia splash and go 3k. Anyone tried it?

If soakers are really worth it I could figure out a tupperware permasoak set up for the touch up stone.

FWIW I’m not fussed about missing the MTC sale deadline. Would rather make a considered purchase than rush to save $20 bucks

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

damn, the glass/rockstars do this too?? maybe I’ll skip the shaptons after all

I don't notice the edges of my Glass stones loading up any more than the center.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Soakers are my preference, @kot_blini, for speed, feel, and edge quality. Fwiw, you can 'permasoak' some stones and this largely mitigates the downsides with the caveat of finding appropriately sized containers. Just a touch of bleach, like 1:80, keeps the water clean between changes.

 

[Vertigo]

I don't notice the edges of my Glass stones loading up any more than the center.

It's so heckin strange and exclusive to this one particular 2k rockstar, that I thought I was going crazy. I have never experienced this on any stone, ever. In fact, I wouldn't have ever mentioned it, but when @kot_blini noticed it with an SG2k it was like HA! I KNEW I WASNT CRAZY!!

 

[kot_blini]

It's so heckin strange and exclusive to this one particular 2k rockstar, that I thought I was going crazy. I have never experienced this on any stone, ever. In fact, I wouldn't have ever mentioned it, but when @kot_blini noticed it with an SG2k it was like HA! I KNEW I WASNT CRAZY!!

it drives me insane both because the stone always feels dished even when dead flat and because everyone else online seems to love it SO much you feel like you must be missing something. I really think both our examples must have firing defects, overheated the edges or something

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I wonder if something shifted in their production? Maybe it coincides with the introduction of the Rockstar series?

 

[kot_blini]

Soakers are my preference, @kot_blini, for speed, feel, and edge quality. Fwiw, you can 'permasoak' some stones and this largely mitigates the downsides with the caveat of finding appropriately sized containers. Just a touch of bleach, like 1:80, keeps the water clean between changes.

what are your favorite higher-grit soakers?

 

[aporigine]

what are your preferred soakers after a

what are your favorite higher-grit soakers?

I have a 5k Suehiro Cerax that is very nice. Fine yet aggressive, and has really good feedback. But it needs 25 minutes to soak.

 

[Vertigo]

it drives me insane both because the stone always feels dished even when dead flat and because everyone else online seems to love it SO much you feel like you must be missing something. I really think both our examples must have firing defects, overheated the edges or something

I've used 2k glass before without this problem, definitely just a production defect. But yeah, it's maddening. To the point that I've mostly given up on it and stick with the 500 edge.

Thank God you mentioned it, I was seriously starting to doubt my grip on reality.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Gesshin, @kot_blini. I have their synthetic natural and 6k. Both are fast and make exceptional edges. I can't pick between them but use the synthetic natural most. Note the 6k is somewhat harder but neither is 'hard' compared to something like a Shapton Pro or Naniwa Chocera/Pro. I'll be getting their 4k at some point, too, not because I need it? Because I want them all, lmao.

 

[kot_blini]

I have a 5k Suehiro Cerax that is very nice. Fine yet aggressive, and has really good feedback. But it needs 25 minutes to soak.

strongly considering permasoaking a suehiro. do you like the rika more than the ouka? that one seems to be more widely discussed for whatever reason.

 

[kot_blini]

Gesshin, @kot_blini. I have their synthetic natural and 6k. Both are fast and make exceptional edges. I can't pick between them but use the synthetic natural most. Note the 6k is somewhat harder but neither is 'hard' compared to something like a Shapton Pro or Naniwa Chocera/Pro. I'll be getting their 4k at some point, too, not because I need it? Because I want them all, lmao.

checking out the description of the synthetic natural. the claim of increased edge retention is interesting. is that something you’ve noticed in practice?

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Hey, @kot_blini. My profile is severely restricted rn for some reason so apologies for not quoting or reacting. About edge retention... Maybe? It's not something I think about because good enough is good enough. If you're thinking about a number like the CATRA tests then it's important to temper those results against use and predictions in the kitchen, as you're trying to do here, because CATRA goes to waaaaay duller than anything people would choose to use. A 10% increase on CATRA could be reduced to 2.5% increase IRL or anywhere in between or outside that range because extra retention is, ofc, at the end. It's theoretical and so helps to for design decisions but proof is in the cuts. It just doesn't matter much for a home cook that knows how to sharpen, imo.