Shigefusa vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara

[preizzo]

My shigefusa it s not reactive at all.
I had three katos workhorse and the two I sold where more reactive, but not such a big problem

 

[Iggy]

Out of curiosity, how reactive is the clad of these two knives, compared to their core?
And if the cladding happesn to be more reactive than the core, how does that affect on foods and which foods?

Thank you Iggy!

The TF are stainless clad, so no reactivity issues there. Here's a quite new (about 1-2 month old) photo of my Denka. Of course the core has got some patina but I quite like the contrast with the stainless.



Kato I find quite reactive of course, but not too bad. On a similar level then my (old) Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura
If you're really looking for a stable patina with nearly no further reactivity, I think I'd prefer Monosteel or stainless clad to soft iron
:2cents:

 

[Saya]

I have to agree. The shig and kato gyutos are both great, and top quality for sure. The 'feeling' of knives are perhaps a very personal thing, and different for each person.

But my Teruyasu Fujiw. makes me smile every time i pick it up. It has presence, has a simple, quiet authority that inspires confidence in a way that the others do not do for me.
I would pick it over shig and kato if I had to choose one, without even hesitating. Others have mentioned the ease and effectiveness of sharpening.

I have the cheaper line, and may try Maboroshi or Denka later on

 

[user 1925]

A Shigefusa is a hand-forged knife by a highly esteemed master artisan (who is quite old) crafted in a traditional manner with an impeccable grind, profile and hand finish. To compare it to a mass-produced stamped knife and argue that it is overrated & overpriced is kind of missing the point. There are cheaper knives that will cut as well and maybe even better (Suisin Inox, Konosuke HD, Etc.), but they will never be a Shigefusa. Although knives are primarily meant for cutting, there are other considerations (profile, grind, distal taper, balance, steel/heat treat, application...personal sentiment). With that said, there are some less expensive stamped knives that meet all of the above considerations (Masamoto KS, for example), and so if you are not hung up on the whole 'hand-forged-author' aspect of the knife, then yeah, you don't need to spend that kind of money to get that level of performance. My Misono Swedish gyuto cuts just as well as my Shig gyuto. Still doesn't make it a Shig.

 

[Godslayer]

I like my maboroshi more than thé denka

 

[XKFC]

I would pick Shigefusa, I have a cleaver from them, really nice knife

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Pics or it didn't happen irate1:

 

[ynot1985]

I would pick Shigefusa, I have a cleaver from them, really nice knife

yeah pics please.. not unicorn but as rare as a hen's teeth

 

[brainsausage]

Shig, Toyoma, Kato. In that order, are extremely reactive. Their joyful knives to cut with and yea clad does oxidize fast. I used to be appalled by the HM factor of knives that oxidize upon use. After I focused on wiping and drying after each use, dry, dry... I'm able to restore the finish that's patina free with some Flitz and a wipe down.

Heh, that's funny- I had quite the opposite experience with that run of knives, interesting. And I should probably just stop harping on how the reactivity of all of these knives is based on improper 'priming'/lack of actual use. But whatever:newhere:

On a whole other topic- I took a few weeks off from the forum, and when I climb back on- everyone is still debating about Shig vs Kato? These knives are firmly in the collector market now it appears. Lots of hype. Lots of expensive hunks of steel not being put to proper use. It's sad to see these incredible craftsman producing truly outstanding tools that will never be actually used, and just passed among collectors at this point. And unlike the guys producing swords- these things are actually meant to be put to work. Yeah- I know, the sword craft isn't quite that black and white, but as a tool it's more intended as a possibility, not an everyday item(hopefully). Oh well. Glad I grabbed the tools I wanted when I did.

 

[brainsausage]

I'm addicted to clickbait now btw.

 

[panda]

i want to see somebody get a custom heiji, and then send it off to dave or jon for spa treatment.

 

[JBroida]

It happens

 

[Saya]

And I should probably just stop harping on how the reactivity of all of these knives is based on improper 'priming'/lack of actual use.

can you elaborate on 'priming'?

 

[ecrphoto]

The TF are stainless clad, so no reactivity issues there. Here's a quite new (about 1-2 month old) photo of my Denka. Of course the core has got some patina but I quite like the contrast with the stainless.



Kato I find quite reactive of course, but not too bad. On a similar level then my (old) Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura
If you're really looking for a stable patina with nearly no further reactivity, I think I'd prefer Monosteel or stainless clad to soft iron
:2cents:

How did you find the performance compared on your Kato and your Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura?

 

[jacko9]

I haven't had the pleasure of owning a Shigefusa but, I do have a 210mm Kato Workhorse that I love and use almost exclusively. If I can find either brand in a 240mm Gyuto I'll buy one or both.

 

[Iggy]

How did you find the performance compared on your Kato and your Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura?

You mean Denka vs. Kato vs. Syousin Sakura?

Difficult, because they're kind of different knives... especially the Kato has more the classic Workhorse geometry.
In total I'd say the performance of the Denka is best regarding easy of cutting, food release and edge retention. Kato second (but I'm not so sure regarding edge retention on the Sakura compared to the Kato).

But unfortunataly, a lot of the TF knives have a big variations regarding grind and geometry. I had the luck to handpick my Denka at his store from a batch of 5-6 Gyutos.

Regards, Iggy

 

[preizzo]

Best Denka I ever see it s the one of inzite. That knife it s just crazy good, could easily bit all my Katos Shigefusas and Moboroshis I have... 😊

 

[fatboylim]

Best Denka I ever see it s the one of inzite. That knife it s just crazy good, could easily bit all my Katos Shigefusas and Moboroshis I have... 😊

Quite true, but most of us don't hit the lottery on a great Teruyasu Fujiwara. Best to handle one before buying, unless there is an experienced BST seller who can guide you on good and bad issues with their Teruyasu Fujiwara.

 

[dwalker]

Quite true, but most of us don't hit the lottery on a great Teruyasu Fujiwara. Best to handle one before buying, unless there is an experienced BST seller who can guide you on good and bad issues with their Teruyasu Fujiwara.

Quite true. I have a 240 plain old Nashiji white1 that is an overachiever. I have moved on from a couple that were not.

 

[inzite]

You mean Denka vs. Kato vs. Syousin Sakura?

Difficult, because they're kind of different knives... especially the Kato has more the classic Workhorse geometry.
In total I'd say the performance of the Denka is best regarding easy of cutting, food release and edge retention. Kato second (but I'm not so sure regarding edge retention on the Sakura compared to the Kato).

But unfortunataly, a lot of the TF knives have a big variations regarding grind and geometry. I had the luck to handpick my Denka at his store from a batch of 5-6 Gyutos.

Regards, Iggy

i agree on the denka vs kato comparison hehe, i also had the chance to hand pick mine amongst 8 other ones, got the thinnest one with the best finish.

 

[inzite]

Best Denka I ever see it s the one of inzite. That knife it s just crazy good, could easily bit all my Katos Shigefusas and Moboroshis I have... 😊

it is a beast! heavier than my hiromoto 270 honyaki and heavier than my ku kato but overall thinner spine and very thin near edge as well. haha. Best buy of 2017 from price and performance perspective.

 

[Iggy]

i agree on the denka vs kato comparison hehe, i also had the chance to hand pick mine amongst 8 other ones, got the thinnest one with the best finish.

IMHO the best and only way to buy your Denka. So quite expensive knife. With flight to Tokyo and so on

 

[fatboylim]

i agree on the denka vs kato comparison hehe, i also had the chance to hand pick mine amongst 8 other ones, got the thinnest one with the best finish.

Was that a 210 gyuto Inzite that you bought with the cleaver?

 

[inzite]

Was that a 210 gyuto Inzite that you bought with the cleaver?

240 , the 210 are pretty thin as well, 270 gets beefy since as per TF's shop, gyuto in their minds are for fabricating meat so thickness and thinness is not just their consideration.

 

[inzite]

IMHO the best and only way to buy your Denka. So quite expensive knife. With flight to Tokyo and so on

that's why i suggest buying more than one on a trip hahaha

 

[fatboylim]

240 , the 210 are pretty thin as well, 270 gets beefy since as per TF's shop, gyuto in their minds are for fabricating meat so thickness and thinness is not just their consideration.

Very nice. I must say, I still think of that DENKA cleaver!

 

[inzite]

Very nice. I must say, I still think of that DENKA cleaver!

lol that one was pure fate. I tried to buy a 195 TF nakiri in blue 1 (iron cladded) - and apparently it exist - off tsubaya in person but it was sold out by the time i got there in to their store so I was pretty disappointed. But the next day the cleaver was the first thing I saw when I entered TF's store hehe and it is exactly what I wanted - mini cleaver but still good height and profile. Felt I just had to pick up a 240 denka too from Iggy's previous posts.

 

[Anton]

lol that one was pure fate. I tried to buy a 195 TF nakiri in blue 1 (iron cladded) - and apparently it exist - off tsubaya in person but it was sold out by the time i got there in to their store so I was pretty disappointed. But the next day the cleaver was the first thing I saw when I entered TF's store hehe and it is exactly what I wanted - mini cleaver but still good height and profile. Felt I just had to pick up a 240 denka too from Iggy's previous posts.

can you post the dimensions, thickenss, etc of that mini cleaver?

 

[inzite]

can you post the dimensions, thickenss, etc of that mini cleaver?

dimensions are 175mm x 81mm. Havent really measured thickness since I only have a measuring tape at home. It tapers to pretty thin behind the edge and spine thickness is comparable to my 240 denka. And did I mention that these denkas are pretty sharp ootb? lol.. I can only imagine how sharp I can get them...

edited...
3mm exiting bolster to 2mm at tip spine side then tapers to a very thin edge.

I have pics on instagram under same user name.

 

[fatboylim]

lol that one was pure fate. I tried to buy a 195 TF nakiri in blue 1 (iron cladded) - and apparently it exist - off tsubaya in person but it was sold out by the time i got there in to their store so I was pretty disappointed. But the next day the cleaver was the first thing I saw when I entered TF's store hehe and it is exactly what I wanted - mini cleaver but still good height and profile. Felt I just had to pick up a 240 denka too from Iggy's previous posts.

I am totally with you on blue steel, it has the toughness for bigger knives. I'd love to do a comparison between your denka cleaver and the Toyama 210 Nakiri B#2 (210 x 65 mm) which is closer to a Chinese vegetable cleaver (195mm x 70mm similar to the CCK 1915). As mentioned in another post, the denka is closer to the Henkel vegetable cleaver at 180x80; one of my favourite sizes but with a below average steel.