Shiny black finish after etching

[icanhaschzbrgr]

I confess I like shiny things and I'd like to learn the magic that is required to make etched blade shiny.
Here's an example of D3 core in stainless cladding after ferric chloride etch. Doesn't look good to me. Actually on this photo I tried to add a thin coat of wax and do some buffing. Doesn't really seem to make any visual difference.

Below is a perfect example of what I'd love to achieve.

I understand that (unlike me) Ben from NV blades actually know a thing or two about proper blade polishing. But I still don't get it how his blades get that shiny look.
I tried to use oil after etching. Tried different types of polishes. The core still looks dull grey. I tried coffee and sulfuric acid instead of ferric chloride, but those weren't getting me there I want to be.

Any ideas? Links?

 

[RDalman]

Buff baby.. Soft cotton and green compound. Lightly. However that finish still produces some drag imo so I prefer to buff clean or really close to.

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

Buff baby.. Soft cotton and green compound. Lightly. However that finish still produces some drag imo so I prefer to buff clean or really close to.

Are you sure there's no greater evil involved into this thing? Like airbrushing blade with a thin coat of liquor just for the sake of looking nice on video?

 

[bjmsharp]

I've been told some makers buff over their etched finishes with carnauba wax to keep it glossy.

Don't have any experience with the longevity or effects on performance though.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

Could it be a hot blued blade? Getting a reflective polish on something etched that dark doesn't seem possible without bluing to my mind.

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

Could it be a hot blued blade? Getting a reflective polish on something etched that dark doesn't seem possible without bluing to my mind.

Could be bluing… I dunno to be honest. Just like bjmsharp mentioned above, I also heard about using carnauba wax. And my photo in the first post actually shows a blade that was covered with carnauba wax (I used hot air to melt wax and get a thin coat). I haven't buffed blade, just tried to quickly polish it with paper cloth.

Another question that I forgot to mention in my original post is about black color itself. All the etching methods I've tried so far results in dull grey surface (though I need to confess I've tried only 3 different steels). So I wonder whether there are some special combinations of steel/etchant that result in rich black color or (or Robin suggested) I should just spend more time buffing.

 

[tostadas]

Is the blade oiled for photos maybe?

 

[MSicardCutlery]

Could be bluing… I dunno to be honest. Just like bjmsharp mentioned above, I also heard about using carnauba wax. And my photo in the first post actually shows a blade that was covered with carnauba wax (I used hot air to melt wax and get a thin coat). I haven't buffed blade, just tried to quickly polish it with paper cloth.

Another question that I forgot to mention in my original post is about black color itself. All the etching methods I've tried so far results in dull grey surface (though I need to confess I've tried only 3 different steels). So I wonder whether there are some special combinations of steel/etchant that result in rich black color or (or Robin suggested) I should just spend more time buffing.

High Mn steels tend to etch darker. For instance, O1 and 1084. That's why the latter is more commonly used in damascus than 1095, at least where available.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

this is what I got from Skye Eilers. His knife I own was black and has held the best etch of anything I have used

Boil 300ml or so of (preferably filtered) water. Get a container big enough for your blade to be submerged in. Preferably vertical and your handle must be out of the liquid if it is attached. I use juice containers. Get 2 cups of instant coffee (I use nescafe coffee) and place in the jug. This is for a 1.5L jug. Add your 300 ml of boiling water and mix. Then fill the remainder of your jug with cold filtered water. Mix and scoop off any foam. Leave to cool to room temp if still warm. Take your steel to your desired finish (preferably a clean and uniform finish). I usually re-sand at my desired grit of refinishing, but that's not necessary. A ferric chloride etch before coffee is not essential, but I've found it can help the coffee "grab" a little better. If ferric etching, wash with a sponge and soapy water, keeping fingerprints off. Rinse off soap in water and dip in ferric (4:1 filtered water:ferric) for 30 seconds. Remove from ferric and rinse in running water to neutralise.
Without touching or drying, place in coffee. Leave 12-24 hours, longer usually results in a more consistent and durable etch. Once etched, rinse without touching in cold water. Pat (don't rub) dry with a soft cloth or paper towel and immediately oil with a food safe oil, don't rub in aggressively. Leave for an hour or so and then pat the excess oil off. This will "set" the etch and make it durable. You can also use an air compressor to blow off the water if you don't want to pat dry. That's what's worked best for me, it can take some practice but the cold coffee and the long soak seem to be the trick. Credit to Mareko Maumasi for this information, he's where I learned how to do it initially.

 

[DanielC]

Looks like coffee patina to me (the look you want)

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

So I tried coffee etch yet again. Followed Matt Jacobs tutorial as closely as I could.

I'd say the effect of coffee etch was indistinguishable from placebo in this particular case.

At this point I have no idea why haven't it worked. D3 core is resistant to coffee? Or I must have used Nescafe, not the cheapest instant coffee I could get. Dunno.

Today I made another blade from the same laminate. Quickly etched it with ferric chloride and submerged into the same coffee. Tomorrow i will see if ferric chloride makes any visible difference.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

So I tried coffee etch yet again. Followed Matt Jacobs tutorial as closely as I could.
View attachment 269111
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View attachment 269114

I'd say the effect of coffee etch was indistinguishable from placebo in this particular case.

At this point I have no idea why haven't it worked. D3 core is resistant to coffee? Or I must have used Nescafe, not the cheapest instant coffee I could get. Dunno.

Today I made another blade from the same laminate. Quickly etched it with ferric chloride and submerged into the same coffee. Tomorrow i will see if ferric chloride makes any visible difference.

I didnt really pay attention to the steal you are using. at 12% chromium its almost stainless. You are probably going to need to a ferric or something like gator piss. @Troopah_Knives any thoughts on a dark etch on D3 steel?

 

[Delat]

Another question that I forgot to mention in my original post is about black color itself. All the etching methods I've tried so far results in dull grey surface (though I need to confess I've tried only 3 different steels). So I wonder whether there are some special combinations of steel/etchant that result in rich black color or (or Robin suggested) I should just spend more time buffing.

The level of darkness with a coffee etchdepends on the steel itself. Here's my knives that have gotten an etch. I did some of these myself with coffee, and I think the ones the makers did (Steele, Ayling, Adonis, maybe the Newham) were also coffee.

From left to right: 80crv2, birgersson mystery steel (probably some form of spicy white), Wolfram special core (similar to 1.2442) and 1084 cladding, 1.2519, 52100 Russian equivalent, vtoku2, and 1.2519. None are particularly shiny except maybe the Markin (red handle) has a bit of sheen.

80crv2, Wolfram special, and 1084 are definitely the darkest of the lot. 52100 gets very dark but not quite black. My AS and white 2 core knives get about 52100 levels of dark but not quite as black as 80crv2.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

The level of darkness with a coffee etchdepends on the steel itself. Here's my knives that have gotten an etch. I did some of these myself with coffee, and I think the ones the makers did (Steele, Ayling, Adonis, maybe the Newham) were also coffee.

From left to right: 80crv2, birgersson mystery steel (probably some form of spicy white), Wolfram special core (similar to 1.2442) and 1084 cladding, 1.2519, 52100 Russian equivalent, vtoku2, and 1.2519. None are particularly shiny except maybe the Markin (red handle) has a bit of sheen.

80crv2, Wolfram special, and 1084 are definitely the darkest of the lot. 52100 gets very dark but not quite black. My AS and white 2 core knives get about 52100 levels of dark but not quite as black as 80crv2.

View attachment 269161

Good call

 

[ReiHamono]

It needs to be shiny before etching, using diamond powder is the best option

 

[Troopah_Knives]

So I tried coffee etch yet again. Followed Matt Jacobs tutorial as closely as I could.
View attachment 269111
View attachment 269112
View attachment 269113

View attachment 269114

I'd say the effect of coffee etch was indistinguishable from placebo in this particular case.

At this point I have no idea why haven't it worked. D3 core is resistant to coffee? Or I must have used Nescafe, not the cheapest instant coffee I could get. Dunno.

Today I made another blade from the same laminate. Quickly etched it with ferric chloride and submerged into the same coffee. Tomorrow i will see if ferric chloride makes any visible difference.

Yeah, I have found coffee is only effective on low-alloy steels. I use a mix of ferric and HCl for etching high alloy steels but that usually comes out greyish. A true black etch may only be achievable using "blueing agents" meant for stainless steel.

 

[Delat]

So I tried coffee etch yet again. Followed Matt Jacobs tutorial as closely as I could.

I'd say the effect of coffee etch was indistinguishable from placebo in this particular case.

At this point I have no idea why haven't it worked. D3 core is resistant to coffee? Or I must have used Nescafe, not the cheapest instant coffee I could get. Dunno.

Today I made another blade from the same laminate. Quickly etched it with ferric chloride and submerged into the same coffee. Tomorrow i will see if ferric chloride makes any visible difference.

Neil Kamimura has a video where he recommends Nescafe classic.

Not necessarily relevant to your original question, but I find a coffee etch to take better and be longer-lasting if I pull it out once or twice (after at least a few hours) to wash and wipe dry over the course of a 24 hour soak. Next time I might also try @Matt Jacobs trick of letting it sit at the end with just a rinse but no wipe.

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

I had a knife made out of KHV5 (closest Japanese analog would SKS1) which has only trace amount of chromium. So I knocked off handle, quickly resanded surface to 800 grit, gave it a minute soak in ferric chloride and then submerged into the same coffee that I used in my previous attempt. 18 hours later I pulled it out, oiled and let it sit for another hour. It's not a pitch black, but its pretty dark (no comparison to D3). And it's pretty shiny when oiled.

I guess that result answer my initial questions. Not every carbon steel can be etched to shiny black. Coffee better be paired with ferric chloride. End result won't stay glossy black once oil is wiped. Buffing with carnauba wax or polishing compound might tweak look but worsen performance a bit