Starting a knife care journey.

[JB1]

Hi guys,

I've tried reading through the threads and can't find this. Apologies if I'm missing it in an obvious place.

I am going to start my knife care journey. Sharpening, polishing, learning to remove patina etc. I'm starting from zero - the closest I've been is using a honing rod.

What are the basic starting set of things I should buy. I'm not particularly price sensitive, but also am very familiar with the 'all the gear but no idea' concept and don't need to be that guy.

Ideally an idea of the 'must' haves, the 'Nice to haves' and the 'quality of life' improving items.

I'm aiming to get to the point of being handy enough to do basic care for high quality knives at home, while intending to hire a professional to do anything really tricky (for now).

 

[Nemo]

The exact products you buy will depend on:
1) Where you live and which products you have economic access to.
2) Whether you want splash & go or are happy to soak.
3) Whether you want to leave pretty finishes on your blade face.
4) Whether you value low price or good service.
5) Whether you value good feedback (auditory and/or tactile).
6) Whether you need to be able to grind high alloy or very high alloy steels.

Keep in mind that finer stones will not improve sharpness- they will only refine the edge. Your knife should be sharp off the coarsest stone in your progression. If not, the solution is to improve your technique, especially deburring technique (using a finer stone won't help).

I'd avoid using a honing rod on Japanese style knives (i.e.: those with steel over around 58 HRC).

Must haves:
1) A medium grit stone (circa 1000 grit). For example, Naniwa Chosera 800 (around 1200 grit) or 1000 (around 1500 grit), King hyper 1000 or shapton Pro 1000 (around 800 grit?).
2) A means of flattening the stone (s). Hard to beat a diamond plate, circa 140 to 400 grit. If you only get one, an Atoma 140 is a pretty good choice. The one with the handle is so easy to use.
3) Some guidance about how to sharpen. Start with Jon Broida's JKI sharpening series and Pete Nowlan's Knife Planet Sharpening Series. And of course, feedback from KKF.

Will eventually need:
1) A fine stone. Circa 3-4k. For example, Naniwa Chosera 3k (around 4k grit) Suehiro Rika 5k (around 4k grit?), probably there is a decent shapton in this range. I often use a Belgian Blue Whetstone in this role (probably around 5-6k).
2) A coarse stone. Circa 4-500k. For example, Naniwa Chosera 400 (around 600 grit?), Shapton Pro or glass 500. Quite important if sharpening Western stainless. Also useful for light thinning.
3) Some form of stone holder. FWIW, I use a silicone baking tray to contain the mess and if required, a Suehiro stone holder (my Choseras have their own stands, so don'tneed the holder bjt some of my other stones need the extra height). Many people use a sink bridge instead. I'm not sure whether the stone debris can eventually block the sink. Some people like a sink bridge over a plastic container full of water.
4) Something to remove patina &/or rust: Could be a rust eraser, some metal polish (I use Mothers's mag polish), some diamond paste, or even some wet and dry sandpaper in appropriate grit.

Might think about getting later:
1) Super coarse (under 300) stones for heavy duty thinning. Problematic because they dish so quickly. I tend to use wet and dry sandpaper in a sandpaper holder instead. You could also consider power equipment but would need to have a plan to avoid overheating the steel.
2) A strop. I favour hard mediums (balsa, hard felt) coated in diamond paste but some people like mediums such a leather. Or you could use a dry fine or very fine stone. Not really necessary.
3) A very fine stone. For example, Imanishi Kitayama 8k, Naniwa Chosera 10k, Naniwa Junpaku 8k, some of the finer Shapton and Suehiro Gokyumo stones. Really only useful for yanagiba sharpening or for showing off (or if you get into razor sharpening). 3 to 4 k is more than enough for kitchen knife use and it's pretty easyto inadvertently round the edge with a super fine stone.
4) Natural stones. Many different kinds. A very deep and potentially very expensive rabbit Warren (especially Japanese natural stones). Some leave pretty finishes on the blade face. Some are rumoured to improve edge retention (but this is quite cintentious). I especially like the property of the Belgian Blue that seems to reduce the burr as it sharpens.

 

[JB1]

This is great. Thank you.

1) Australia
2) err probably splash and go, that sounds quicker, but happy to do either if it's better
3) yes, once I've built up the skills
4) good service
5) don't care insofar as it gets the job done. But if it's equally good probably would enjoy feedback - make the job more 'fun' I suspect
6) yep - eventually would like to be able to do some fancy western Damascus knives and just higher end stuff in general

I now have somewhere to start though, really appreciated.

 

[Nemo]

This is great. Thank you.

1) Australia
2) err probably splash and go, that sounds quicker, but happy to do either if it's better
3) yes, once I've built up the skills
4) good service
5) don't care insofar as it gets the job done. But if it's equally good probably would enjoy feedback - make the job more 'fun' I suspect
6) yep - eventually would like to be able to do some fancy western Damascus knives and just higher end stuff in general

I now have somewhere to start though, really appreciated.

FWIW, I started with the Naniwa Chosera 400, 1k, 3k from James at KnS. I also bought the Naniwa Junpaku but I don't really recommend this a staring stone. Chosera is S&G, has great feedback and will grind most steels ok (maybe not the super duper steels such as S90V, but SG2 and HAP40 are fine). The only downsides are that it's a bit more pricey and there are reports of the stones cracking. FWIW, I sealed mine and never soak them and I have never had this problem. I think KnS has a sale on some Choseras for EOFY.

The Shapton Pros are a bit coarser and the feedback is not as good but they are cheaper. I think Protooling has some shzptons on special for EOFY. I suspect Morohei and Nanohone would also perform well.

Chosera 3k isn't a great stone for laying down contrast but leaves a decent foundation for another stone to do so.

Damascus is not usually a high alloy steel. Damascus cladding may look pretty but they will get scratched up whenever you thin the blade requiring refinishing with stones or sandpaper, then etching in a strong acid. The extra work involved in making it look pretty again tends to discourage regular maintenance, which means that your knife is not in tip top condition as often. I have a couple of damascus clad knives but I rarely use them for this reason.

 

[daveb]

Agree with everything Nemo said and he said it well. (Except the Chosera part )

My advice to newcomers is to go slowly. You won't learn this overnight but neither is it as daunting as it seems at first glance

Gotta plus one the JKI and Newnam utubers. It's easy to access too much information, get conflicting information and get lost in the sea of details. Anyone with a phone can make a utube. These two nail it.

One of the nice things about Shapton Pro is that they come in a plastic box that can serve as a stone holder. With a SP1000, SP2000 and later a SG500, you'll have all the stones you need for a lifetime of sharpening. (Note that (in these circles, need and want can become the same thing) .

As you develop proficiency with the stones you choose, you may want to add other stones, soakers, naturals, other pieces of kit. You can spend all you want to, it can be quite the rabbit hole.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I'll give a suggestion for sharpening...

- Shapton Glass 500 - I consider this or something very similar, a must have. You can do a lot of work on this stone from some decently heavy lifting to even your final edge if you have to. This and some light stropping will certainly produce a serviceable edge.

- Shapton Glass 2k - Not a must have but damn close to it. This is your routine edge maintenance and final edge stone. This is also a nice stone to learn on, provided you're starting with a good edge, because it is more forgiving than lower grits.

- Stone Flattening plan - Some will say you can put this off for a bit but I disagree, especially in the beginning. Flat stones are very important when learning. Now, you can do the sandpaper on flat surface thing, one of the cheap flattening stones (which will also dish) or go with a diamond. I recommend you bite the bullet and go diamond. Atoma 140 is the popular choice.

- Stone Holder - You can get by with a brick or chunk of wood but a holder is nice.

- Red Sharpie - This is for painting your edge and helping you see what the stones are doing to it. Great learning tool!

- 10x+ loupe - Nice to have.

- Third stone I would personally go low grit, something in the 200ish range. I actually prefer a Norton Crystolon course oil stone here. As long as you aren't doing repairs, thinning, re-profiling, etc. this can wait.

- Strops are not necessary and you can use cardboard, newspaper, denim, etc. strop so no need to buy one to start.

Unless you're doing a lot of sashimi, you don't need a bunch of high grit stones for sharpening. Polishing is another matter. I'm not a polisher so I'll stay out of that. But we can't grit our way into sharpness. the lowest grit stone you use, has to produce the sharp edge. Subsequent girts just refine what you've already constructed. And past a certain grit I find the edges can be slick and short-lived.

I recommend watching Japanese Knife Imports, Peter Nowlan, Korin, SHARP Knife Shop, and a few others on YT. I do not recommend watching Burrfection. @milangravier does some great polishing and stone discussions on Instagram.

Some excellent polishers here on the forum too but keep in mind, polishing is a much more complex thing and not all knives are good candidates, at least for stone polishing. I'd put this aspect of your journey down the road a bit and focus on sharpening fundamentals.

You can do it! KKF will help, never hesitate to ask.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I didn't want to read @Nemo's recommendations until I gave mine. I was curious how similar we'd be. Pretty close except I like courser early vs. finer but finer is definitely the more popular opinion. His advice is excellent as always. Just slightly different philosophies.

Let me also add that Bar Keeper's Friend in powder form can be super nice to have on hand. Works great on rust, patina removal, etc.

 

[JB1]

Thank you.

 

[KenjiF]

Awesome @JB1. All the reccomendations above are great. Shapton glass I think is an easier stone but harder to flatten. Chosera can be very useful and accurate stone when you get to thinning and polishing (the 3k is great for seeing mistakes made earlier or where work needs to still be done). If you just want to dip your toe in a good option I think is a combination stone (different grits on both sides). The king is pretty good. I think they are usually soakers though. I’d reccomend some rust erasers, sandpaper, flitz and bandaids as well as accessories that I didn’t see listed above.

Apart from sharpening I would learn to straighten a knife (and tell if it’s twisted or bent) and thin a knife.

Good luck!

 

[JB1]

Thank you.

Straightening sounds tricky. Hopefully none of the ones I buy are twisted or bent and unlikely they'll get that way with light home use. But if I enjoy it I'll work towards that, I'm sure it's not hard to get a bent knife to straighten.

I assume bandaids are for when I cut myself learning...

 

[deltaplex]

Thank you.

Straightening sounds tricky. Hopefully none of the ones I buy are twisted or bent and unlikely they'll get that way with light home use. But if I enjoy it I'll work towards that, I'm sure it's not hard to get a bent knife to straighten.

I assume bandaids are for when I cut myself learning...

It certainly can be, but most times it's not. I'd say 80+% of clad blades that make it into my hands have some form of bend/warp in them, and almost all of them can be worked out in about a minute. Check the blades when you get them, check them after you thin them, check them somewhat regularly while in use; it's surprisingly easy to pick up deflections.

 

[M1k3]

Here's what I would get if starting from scratch but with the knowledge I've learned. I'll list in priority.

1. Shapton Glass 500 double thick (or regular one if you're not planning on sharpening a lot).

2. Shapton Pro 2k or Shapton Glass 4k. Or both.

3. Atoma 140 or similar lapping plate

4. Coarse stone, Shapton Pro 220, Norton Crystolon or India Coarse

5. A Coticule or BBW

I'll second what @HumbleHomeCook said about strops. Paper, cardboard, a towel, balsa wood, etc. Not necessary, but nice to have.

 

[Nemo]

I'll emphasise that the exact stones you choose are not that important. As long as they fulfilled your requirements in terms of S&G, and the rope of steel you need to sharpen, you will get used to the characteristics of any decent stone. Your developing skill will be much more important than the fairly subtle differences between stones.

I use and like the feedback that I get from Choseras but I don't have any trouble using other stones and I'm pretty confident that my learning curve wouldn't have been that different if I had chosen to start on Shaptons or other high quality stones.

I agree that if you want to give stropping a try, try some cereal box (or similar) cardboard folderd over the edge of a bench. Use the grey side, not the shiny side. If you want, you can add an abrasive compound (diamond paste, say 1 or 3 microns, is available cheaply from lapidary suppliers) but this is not necessary except for very highly alloyed steels. Indeed, stropping isn't really necessary unless showing off a d it's a pretty good way to round a perfectly functional edge if you get it wrong. So you may want to leave it for later.

 

[Delat]

Here's what I would get if starting from scratch but with the knowledge I've learned. I'll list in priority.

1. Shapton Glass 500 double thick (or regular one if you're not planning on sharpening a lot).

2. Shapton Pro 2k or Shapton Glass 4k. Or both.

3. Atoma 140 or similar lapping plate

4. Coarse stone, Shapton Pro 220, Norton Crystolon or India Coarse

5. A Coticule or BBW

I'll second what @HumbleHomeCook said about strops. Paper, cardboard, a towel, balsa wood, etc. Not necessary, but nice to have.

I pretty much started with 1-3 on this list. Add the Shapton field stone holder and you're in business.

Beyond that starter set, I recommend you buy additional stones only when driven by specific need, and ask for recommendations then. For example there are tons of choices for item 4 on the list, and the specific situation you have might be the determining factor on what you choose.

 

[KenjiF]

Thank you.

Straightening sounds tricky. Hopefully none of the ones I buy are twisted or bent and unlikely they'll get that way with light home use. But if I enjoy it I'll work towards that, I'm sure it's not hard to get a bent knife to straighten.

I assume bandaids are for when I cut myself learning...

Look down the edge of the spine and blade with the point facing toward your eye (point because if you look from the heel side you can't see if the tip is bent). Face towards a light source or white wall. Focus on the edge closest to your eye and then move your focus down the edge. You should see any big bends pretty quickly. Your eye will train up to see minor ones soon. You can use a straightening stick or place the knife on the cutting board flat with the bend up and half hanging over the edge and place your palm on the other side of the knife and lift the handle until the bend is gone.

Twists are a little harder to see and fix. Make sure the knife is straight using the first process. Hold the knife with the blade facing you and the spine away from you at arm's distance. If you see the heel higher and the tip lower (or the inverse) then that is a twist. It will look like a propeller. If you see this I'd have someone experienced look at it or ask on the forum.

Bends are very common and happen with usage (crushing garlic is a common one). Twists are usually from the smith or factory and shouldn't have been sold like that but it happens. It would be unusual for a user to accidentally create one.

Bandaids....cuts were actually pretty rare for me. The main one was blisters and slowly grinding off fingertips because they were making contact with stone (strange but I don't notice it until I see a red streak on the stone). Don't let this dissuade you its rewarding I promise.

 

[tostadas]

First off, welcome! To me, I'd keep things super simple. Shapton. Pro 1k is all you need to get started.

Flattening stone is nice. You can get by with coarse sandpaper on a flat surface like a cheap tile from hardware store, or your kitchen counter. However, if you're just starting sharpening, I wouldn't worry much about flattening stones for a while. Shaptons dish very slowly.

For tips, check out JKI as folks have mentioned, and I also like Peter nowlan aka knife planet videos on YouTube.

No need to overthink, just dive in and start practicing.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

@JB1 I'm sure you're picking up on some themes in all the responses but one to be sure not to miss is the differences in recommendations. That isn't meant to confuse you, it means you have lots of choices and none of it is that rigid. There's different approaches that all arrive at the same place so you don't have to stress getting the exact right thing.

Pick a direction that sounds good to you and go.

 

[M1k3]

@JB1 I'm sure you're picking up on some themes in all the responses but one to be sure not to miss is the differences in recommendations. That isn't meant to confuse you, it means you have lots of choices and none of it is that rigid. There's different approaches that all arrive at the same place so you don't have to stress getting the exact right thing.

Pick a direction that sounds good to you and go.

Absolutely. I can redo my response in a broader option.

Here's what I would get if starting from scratch but with the knowledge I've learned. I'll list in priority.

1. Shapton Glass 500 double thick (or regular one if you're not planning on sharpening a lot).

2. Shapton Pro 2k or Shapton Glass 4k. Or both.

3. Atoma 140 or similar lapping plate

4. Coarse stone, Shapton Pro 220, Norton Crystolon or India Coarse

5. A Coticule or BBW

I'll second what @HumbleHomeCook said about strops. Paper, cardboard, a towel, balsa wood, etc. Not necessary, but nice to have.

1. 400-2k (Japanese grit rating), Shapton/Naniwa/Suehiro/King/Sigma/Venev

2. 2k-6k (Japanese grit rating), Shapton/Naniwa/Suehiro/King/Sigma/Venev

3. Coarse diamond lapping plate, Atoma/DMT/Nanohone/JKI house brand/CKTG house brand

4. Coarse stone, 100-400 Shapton/Naniwa/Suehiro/King/Sigma/Venev

5. Something "different", Coticule, BBW, Washita, Jnat, etc.

 

[Justinv]

The funny thing is I recall reading recommended starter stones here in 2013 when I was looking for some: Shapton glass 1000 and 4000. A decade later and they are still the recommendation.

 

[JB1]

Some technology moves really fast, others not so much. Cooking meat over fire is still about as good as it gets.

 

[isaluteya]

First off, welcome! To me, I'd keep things super simple. Shapton. Pro 1k is all you need to get started.

Flattening stone is nice. You can get by with coarse sandpaper on a flat surface like a cheap tile from hardware store, or your kitchen counter. However, if you're just starting sharpening, I wouldn't worry much about flattening stones for a while. Shaptons dish very slowly.

For tips, check out JKI as folks have mentioned, and I also like Peter nowlan aka knife planet videos on YouTube.

No need to overthink, just dive in and start practicing.

This right here. I'm still new as well and have been doing my best to absorb as much as possible from folks. It's easy to get caught in a rabbit hole of choosing between stones based on what more experienced folks know, but what I've found is that I can hardly still tell the difference between different stones of the same grit until I've built up the muscle memory and feedback on one stone.

So pick one stone, live with the decision for a bit, and enjoy the romantic process of getting to know your knife and a stone. One of my favorite philosophers once sang: "it ain't about how fast I get there, it ain't about what's waiting on the other side. It's the climb" and I gotta say I really felt that every time I start sharpening on the Shapton Pro 1k

 

[jprugel]

If you do happen to go with new Chosera, I'd really recommend picking up a sink bridge. I think its $70.00 on sale ATM on SharpeningSupplies. The stones seem to consume water really quickly and you aren't supposed to soak them, if you do its max 15 minutes.

 

[romanjanos]

This is great. Thank you.

1) Australia
2) err probably splash and go, that sounds quicker, but happy to do either if it's better
3) yes, once I've built up the skills
4) good service
5) don't care insofar as it gets the job done. But if it's equally good probably would enjoy feedback - make the job more 'fun' I suspect
6) yep - eventually would like to be able to do some fancy western Damascus knives and just higher end stuff in general

I now have somewhere to start though, really appreciated.

You can order naniwa pro (Chosera without stand) stones from Chef Armoury in Melbourne. Pretty good deal if you get a set (#400, #1000 and #3000). I believe the postage is free in Australia.

I love my morihei hishiboshi stones as well. I'm happy to catch up for a sharpening session if you are in Melbourne.

Cheers,

Janos

 

[JB1]

You can order naniwa pro (Chosera without stand) stones from Chef Armoury in Melbourne. Pretty good deal if you get a set (#400, #1000 and #3000). I believe the postage is free in Australia.

I love my morihei hishiboshi stones as well. I'm happy to catch up for a sharpening session if you are in Melbourne.

Cheers,

Janos

Thanks for the offer, but in Sydney. I'll check that out though.

 

[Nemo]

I'm pretty sure Chefs Armoury's original store is in Sydney.

Note that Chosera is thicker than Naniwa Pro (25 vs 20mm) but they otherwise seem to be very similar.

If you want the Chosera or Pro (or the 15mm thick "baby Chosera"), you may find that Knivesandstones.com.au (KnS) has better prices, even before the current EOFY discounts.

Edited to add: Protooling's prices on baby Chosera are probably also competetive with their EOFY discounts.

 

[mockit]

All the big names in stones are great imo. A lot of it comes down to preference and what you plan to do with them. Personally think Naniwa are the most versatile of the 3 I’ve tried (Shapton, Naniwa, Morihei). It is a lot of fun to experiment and try new stuff but also realize stones within a set are meant to work together! Example - going from a Naniwa Chosera 1k to Shapton 2k would be kind of pointless as they are too close in grit. As stated above - Shapton run coarse / Naniwa run fine.

 

[Bolek]

If you are not price sencitive one to 3 vitrifed diamond stones: (and à windex botle)
#1000 or
#400, #2000 and #5000
Not for polishing but just to sharpening.
I have 3 from Practical Sharpening and I can sharpen enything with them