Suji or Not to Suji?

[madmotts]

I'm looking to add a suji to my knife arsenal and while i don't need it, it peaks my interest. I'm a NOOB home cook but for whatever reason spend an unreasonable amount of time reading, shopping and sharpening. i've bought a lot of knives (well not like some folks here) in the last year or so- more than 30 including 240 gyutos x8 and have tall bunka fetish. So my question here is - why would i want to buy (convince me) to buy a suji and what size and height? Here are two boundaries- I have a 300 yanagi, so the sashimi thing is good and i don't do roasts turkey or beef in total more than twice a year.

LOCATION Seattle, WA, USA

KNIFE TYPE Maybe sujihiki

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? wa

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? This is part of my question. 240 or 270 or 300?

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no). No.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? <= $350

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.). Dunno

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Adding

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.). Draw and push.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) I want more knives

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? Rust magnets bum me out, but they don't stop me from buying them.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Doesn't apply- home cook.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) synthetic Asahi and Tenryo.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes/kind of- learning. I've been sharpening for a year (50+ sessions), making progress.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.). Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, i've bought over a dozen synth stones

 

[dafox]

Twice a year, that's grounds for a new knife around here!

 

[M1k3]

Swipe right.

Buy a Yoshikane or Heiji SemiStainless in the meantime.

 

[rmrf]

Is a suji appreciably better than a gyuto of equal length for roast meats? I've been debating buying a suji but I always convince myself to get a gyuto instead.

 

[RevJoe]

Is a suji appreciably better than a gyuto of equal length for roast meats? I've been debating buying a suji but I always convince myself to get a gyuto instead.

I think it might depend on what your slicing at least it does for me.

 

[Rangen]

Two ways to justify a long slicer: big things, and hard things of which you want thin slices. Ham can be both of these. A nice roast ham is large in diameter and a smooth slice means a long knife for that uninterrupted cut. A dry-cured ham like Spanish or Prosciutto or American country ham (too few know that the best of these are fully worthy to stand with the previous two, for slicing super thin uncooked) demands a thin, long knife.

I am very fond of my Takamura suji, but it's RG2.

I can't help but notice that your "tall bunka fetish" puts you very close to my own overwhelmingly favored knife type, Chinese cleavers. Not to trigger a new quest, or anything...

 

[Mikeadunne]

You need one, maybe two, maybe six. It's above your budget but I vote Watanabe/toyama

 

[Nemo]

Buy a suji to, well... slice flesh (sujihiki roughly translates as "flesh slicer").

I.e.: slicing meat, trimming meat, portioning meat.

270 is the most practical size IME. Allows one- draw slicing (avoids "sawing") on most cuts.

I like my Toyama. It is very sharp and tougher tham I thought.

But the one I use the most is my Shiro Kamo Ku AS. Maybe just because it's cheap and I am less worried about damaging it. Good performer. Excellemt value for money. Not excessively reactive. Easy to sharpen. Strops well on diamond loaded felt or balsa.

If youmare going to use it on crust roasts or crackling, try Sukenari YXR7. Mine is a 270 Ktip gyuto but I am amazed at what that knife will put up with. Most recently, it carved the Xmas pork roast with full crackle without problems.

 

[damiano]

Which gyutos do you currently use? Does any one of those have a suji-type profile already? Like a Masamoto KS e.g. - that is, with not a lot of heel?

I've just bought a Masamoto KS sujihiki a month ago, my first suji. Still too early to give a proper assessment of the pros of having a sujihiki, as well the KS in itself. SO far so good - but then I typically prefer more specialised knives over a gyuto.

 

[Jovidah]

I think it also depends on what length gyutos you already have. Personally I like having a 270 suji, but that's also because my largest gyuto is 240 (and larger doesn't make sense in my situation). Not sure if it still makes a lotta sense if it's in the same length. For smaller cuts I just as easily use my gyuto.

Not sure I'd bother with a suji for slicing hams. Would probably get an actual ham knife or one of those electrical cutting machines instead. Last time I - as an untrained home cook - bought one of those blocks of serrano ham 'to save money' and tried my hand at slicing it thin with a suji it basically felt like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Benuser]

The main advantage of a suji over a gyuto is in causing less dragging with fresh meat, and less resistance with cutting a roast.

 

[daveb]

Is a suji appreciably better than a gyuto of equal length for roast meats? I've been debating buying a suji but I always convince myself to get a gyuto instead.

Oh hell yes.

 

[madmotts]

causing less dragging with fresh meat, and less resistance with cutting a roast.

I certainly don’t want to be dragging, so even if it’s twice a year, it’s a must have. 270 sounds like the way to go cause sawing is just wasted motion.

That prime rib roast will look gorgeous after breaking down half of it in stair step order. The crowd oohs and ahhs. Someone asks “what kind of knife is that?” Me- “Oh this? It’s just my sujihiki- a slicer” *sparkle off the tip of the knife*.

Ok enough of the silliness. I’m leaning towards a Hinoura W2 270 at KnS. I haven’t experienced a Hinoura, looks cool, within the budget and chestnut.

There’s also the Sukenari ginsan 270 at a lower price point. I’ve read this line is stamped but it’s still a sukenari knife. There’s also Shigeki Tanaka options.

Do suji profiles vary significantly? The height and length seems like it’d make them seem flattish.

 

[Ruso]

Every time I set myself to buy a suji I end up buying another gyuto. So, no you do not need one. Just get your n+1 gyuto.

 

[daveb]

Suggest you get weight on the Hinora. I'm a little suji stupid and have found 165g to be as low as I want to go. Don't want no flexi. Want the knife to help with the work. My favorites weigh in at just over 200g.

The Sukenari at 160g is a bit light and at 257mm is a bit short.

 

[jacko9]

I bought a 270mm Kagekiyo that's great for roasted meats but, for cold leftovers like slicing ham for sandwiches I use my Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm Gyuto the slices just come out more uniform with a wider blade.

 

[daddy yo yo]

Yes!

 

[Robert Lavacca]

Buy a suji to, well... slice flesh (sujihiki roughly translates as "flesh slicer").

I.e.: slicing meat, trimming meat, portioning meat.

270 is the most practical size IME. Allows one- draw slicing (avoids "sawing") on most cuts.

I like my Toyama. It is very sharp and tougher tham I thought.

But the one I use the most is my Shiro Kamo Ku AS. Maybe just because it's cheap and I am less worried about damaging it. Good performer. Excellemt value for money. Not excessively reactive. Easy to sharpen. Strops well on diamond loaded felt or balsa.

If youmare going to use it on crust roasts or crackling, try Sukenari YXR7. Mine is a 270 Ktip gyuto but I am amazed at what that knife will put up with. Most recently, it carved the Xmas pork roast with full crackle without problems.

I was actually thinking about picking up the shiro kamo 300 mm suji for work. It’s embarrassing, i’ve been in professional kitchens for 13 years, have been using J-knives for 5-6, and have never bought a suji. Could really use one now but don’t want to spend a ton of money. I know shiro’s AS is pretty cheap. I remember the nakiri I bought years ago had some serious low spots. For a suji though, I could care less as long as it’s functional. I love his AS steel for the price too. Maybe I should pull the trigger.

 

[madmotts]

Well I just eBay’d a Matsubara b2 270. Has an aggressive looking Ktip which got me to pull the trigger. Check that suji box.

 

[VicWire]

Suggest you get weight on the Hinora. I'm a little suji stupid and have found 165g to be as low as I want to go. Don't want no flexi. Want the knife to help with the work. My favorites weigh in at just over 200g.

My Hinoura White#2 270mm is 170g.

 

[Nemo]

I was actually thinking about picking up the shiro kamo 300 mm suji for work. It’s embarrassing, i’ve been in professional kitchens for 13 years, have been using J-knives for 5-6, and have never bought a suji. Could really use one now but don’t want to spend a ton of money. I know shiro’s AS is pretty cheap. I remember the nakiri I bought years ago had some serious low spots. For a suji though, I could care less as long as it’s functional. I love his AS steel for the price too. Maybe I should pull the trigger.

My suji isn't too bad for low spots. The left side looks to have a verys light concave wide bevel. No low spots apart from the concavity. The right side seems slightly convex in places, flat in others. A few slight low spots but nothing exceptional. Interesing because the gyuto is thinner and looks to have a flat grind (haven't thinned my gyuto yet, So nt sure about low spots).

 

[fimbulvetr]

I have ...6? Sujihikis: A 300mm Gesshin Ginga; a 285mm Hinoura; a 270mm old school Toyama; a 210mm Kochi; a 210mm Itinnomon; and a 240mm Hinoura; plus also a Munetoshi 210mm slicer. I love them, but I work in a butcher shop rather than a pro kitchen these days. I slice things a lot.

The Toyama is the best of the bunch, and it’s a workhorse. Expensive or not, I routinely beat it like a rented mule and it has never let me down. The Ginga is great, but flexi, really excels at slicing veal top round or pork or veal schnitzel. The bigger Hinoura is easily sharpened, gets sharper than hell, and doesn’t rust too quickly- it’s my coworkers’ favorite slicer. It’s up there with the Toyama, but coworkers are nearly feral, and I had to choose one to leave out. The 240 Hinoura will chip, but be careful and it’s a great size for a butcher shop OR a home kitchen, where I used to use it to portion boneless roasts when we had company over, in the before times.

The 210s are all I really need for my wife and me at home. The Kochi is super nimble and great for slicing a big-ass strip steak or ribeye or pork tenderloin for two. The Itinnomon is stiffer and is the best line knife I ever had and during the Unmentionable Months between October and January, it’s often the only knife I use at home because I cannot be assed to cook dinner with anything more than one pan and a knife. (My wife insists on plates, otherwise we’d eat dinner over the trashcan, then go to bed at 7:30.)

The Munetoshi is great for portioning, especially re-outfitted with a big burnt chesnut handle so it can behave as an oversized boning knife. Also great for trimming Bavette.

if I were shopping now, I’d be most interested in the Wakui at epicedge or the Mazaki at Carbon, but that’s on hearsay and my itchy suji-purchasing finger.