TF Customer, No More

Advertise with us
Find deals on amazon
Shop Knives and stones on ebay
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
swarth said:
All forged knives are bent... :D
Click to expand...
+1. I think I've maybe had one forged knife that did not have a bend or twist and maybe I'm not looking at the one close enough. There are certainly degrees to this and a line must be drawn somewhere. I have only sent one knife back and that one was a honyaki that could not be straightened without the application of heat. Still waiting to see how it turns out.
 
I have ordered direct twice and so far so good. I find they were quite responsive with any questions and requests.
 
TF = $hit since way back when (at least 2006). Hype train drivers can post whatever they want, but the fact of the matter is that no one used to buy them. End of.
 
dwalker said:
+1. I think I've maybe had one forged knife that did not have a bend or twist and maybe I'm not looking at the one close enough. There are certainly degrees to this and a line must be drawn somewhere. I have only sent one knife back and that one was a honyaki that could not be straightened without the application of heat. Still waiting to see how it turns out.
Click to expand...
For me the line would be drawn at performance. The TF in question has a bend that would haunt me until I found a way to get it fixed. I suppose these things aren’t so obvious to everyone.
 
swarth said:
I'd have to see the edge.
Click to expand...

This. Did you take photos from the edge side (the most impt angle) as well as spine with the blade resting on both sides. There would be a noticeable deviation that would be easier to detect compared than a single photo from the spine. I had a knife shipped to me with an obvious deviation like you describe. Took several photos from both sides to illustrate the problem and informed the vendor who accepted its return.

Do you know why TF had this knife in stock. Its not a 210 or 240. Perhaps the reason for its existence might provide some clues as to why the knife has a defect. For example was it a 240 with a problem like a broken tip that was shortened but still with a slight bend.
 
labor of love said:
For me the line would be drawn at performance. The TF in question has a bend that would haunt me until I found a way to get it fixed. I suppose these things aren’t so obvious to everyone.
Click to expand...
Agreed. A bend in the spine may have zero negative effect on performance if the grind is true. I would venture to say that, more often than not, performance is a secondary requirement for a large segment of the Japanese knife buying population.......not that there is anything wrong with that.
 
swarth said:
All forged knives are bent... :D
Click to expand...

Ok ok, I give in. :p I just looked at my Shigehiro and it's slightly bent too. Sorry for kinda lashing out. My greenness obviously shows. I never really took notice of them all not being straight until the TF. In my defense, however, none have been this apparent. So as I stated, it's probably not as bad as I thought. But the thread's point was more directed towards the transaction experience and not necessarily all about the knife itself.

I didn't take the time to photograph the edge as I just wanted to send it back and not waste any time and potentially drop it or something. :D In hindsight I would have definitely taken photos from other angles to verify the extremity of the bend.
 
ashy2classy said:
Ok ok, I give in. [emoji14] I just looked at my Shigehiro and it's slightly bent too. Sorry for kinda lashing out. My greenness obviously shows. I never really took notice of them all not being straight until the TF. In my defense, however, none have been this apparent. So as I stated, it's probably not as bad as I thought. But the thread's point was more directed towards the transaction experience and not necessarily all about the knife itself.

I didn't take the time to photograph the edge as I just wanted to send it back and not waste any time and potentially drop it or something. :D In hindsight I would have definitely taken photos from other angles to verify the extremity of the bend.
Click to expand...
Don't beat yourself up. You probably did the right thing.
 
A bend would irritate me too and once seen cannot be unseen. That's why I returned the knife I received. I just checked my 4 TF's and all are straight so TF can make a straight blade. As mentioned earlier I'd be curious as to how they come to have this odd length in their inventory. Also odd the spine was not eased on a Maboroshi. They don't smooth the spine on the Denka as it would contrast with the forge Ku finish.
 
parbaked said:
I think there are also some cultural differences at play.
In Japan, customers rarely return products.
They just don't buy it again.
It's all about avoiding conflict.

I love my TF but I'm glad I got to pick it out.
I was in the TF shop in April and don't doubt they believe your bent knife cuts fine.
I had to sort through a pile of gyutos to find a "perfect" one.
I asked Gaku about the irregular looking grinds and bevels and if they'd be fixed by sharpening.
He insisted that all the knives are carefully optimized as is and would not benefit from an initial sharpening.
He said the forgings are irregular and they compensate for it during grinding and sharpening.
He insisted the knives all cut great but also said if customers want a perfect looking knife they should shop elsewhere.
Gaku basically gave you the same explanation:
"The knives we handmade each has unique geometry, thickness, weight and any more.
Also, during production and before shipping, we repeat the adjustment "to improve usability" over and over.
So, even if it is slightly distorted or bent in appearance, it is the ingenious device for pleasantly cooking."
"The knives we handmade each has unique geometry, thickness, weight and any more.
Also, during production and before shipping, we repeat the adjustment "to improve usability" over and over.
So, even if it is slightly distorted or bent in appearance, it is the ingenious device for pleasantly cooking."

It's almost like they blame you for not being able to get over the fact that the item you bought is not "perfect".
TF knives are only about performance and wonkiness must be accepted!

It's also interesting how they'd rather you try it before returning it while in the US it's better to return it in new condition.
Again there are cultural differences.

You should be disappointed about the knife and frustrated about being out even $60.
That is not how customer service work in the US.

I'm only trying to shed some light on why TF might feel put out by a request to pay for return shipping.
It's a real loss of face because they honestly believe the knife works as it should in spite of the bend.
They feel they fulfilled their side of the transaction.

Unfortunately you have to write it off as a life lesson but celebrate how much time you're going to save in the future not thinking about TF TF TF TF TF TF TF TF.....
Click to expand...

This is a very good post and I agree completely. I was waiting for something to be written about this because I was thinking about it the entire time I was writing my post - that my bitching is mostly because our expectations are very different from the makers in Japan. Something I failed to mention - this was my 6th TF and my first five were all good so I've been very lucky, I guess. I really do like them a lot, but was taken aback by the tone of the last email, something I guess I should have seen as a typical reaction and not necessarily one that reflects TF's attitude towards its customers.

labor of love said:
OP, out of curiosity how did your gyuto cost direct?
Click to expand...

I paid between $335 and $350, I can't remember.

Corradobrit1 said:
Like
Click to expand...

:p I tried to stay away from the language barrier. Clearly TF does a pretty good job with working with international buyers, something that probably couldn't be said about most US vendors where we tend to only speak our own language and expect everyone else to assimilate. I commend this trait of non-US vendors.
 
Did you notice anything odd with the cladding line towards the tip. Its hard to see in Gaku's photo. I have a feeling this was born a 240.
 
ashy2classy said:
:p I tried to stay away from the language barrier. Clearly TF does a pretty good job with working with international buyers, something that probably couldn't be said about most US vendors where we tend to only speak our own language and expect everyone else to assimilate. I commend this trait of non-US vendors.
Click to expand...

I bought two knives from a vendor/maker in Japan with a Japanese only website, relying solely on Google translate. Now that was a scary transaction but turned out surprisingly well in the end. Working with Gaku was a lot easier.
 
Easy 5 second fix.

You guys know how to fix a bend?

.... carefully bend it back.

But yes. Buy through trusted vendors who mostly always catch these and fix them before they go out the store.
 
osakajoe said:
Easy 5 second fix.

You guys know how to fix a bend?

.... carefully bend it back.

But yes. Buy through trusted vendors who mostly always catch these and fix them before they go out the store.
Click to expand...

Without other photos, I can't be sure the bend was as simple as that. As Gaku mentioned, the bend may have been intentional to create a proper edge. I didn't check so that was my fault and I didn't ask what they might do to "fix" it. I wasn't confident that the knife would come back to my satisfaction so I didn't take the chance and asked for a refund.
 
Timthebeaver said:
TF = $hit since way back when (at least 2006). Hype train drivers can post whatever they want, but the fact of the matter is that no one used to buy them. End of.
Click to expand...


LOL...and still won't. Funny how they say it's bent to make it cut 'ingeniously' but others say bend it back...someone's wrong. Finally if you want a trusted maker in Japan without a language issue I don't think you could do better than Watanabe (Sin).
 
Last edited:
dwalker said:
I would venture to say that, more often than not, performance is a secondary requirement for a large segment of the Japanese knife buying population.......not that there is anything wrong with that.
Click to expand...

True and that is why TF has a online store so he can sell outside of Japan. He told me that his online sales are 90% outside Japan. He couldn't survive if he relied on the Japan mass market. He has no desire to sell to Tokyo Hands, departments stores or knife shops that want him to stamp they're brand on his knives. His business, like Takeda, Watananbe & others rely on overseas enthusiasts who create the demand for their work even more than their local mass market.
 
parbaked said:
True and that is why TF has a online store so he can sell outside of Japan. He told me that his online sales are 90% outside Japan. He couldn't survive if he relied on the Japan mass market. He has no desire to sell to Tokyo Hands, departments stores or knife shops that want him to stamp they're brand on his knives. His business, like Takeda, Watananbe & others rely on overseas enthusiasts who create the demand for their work even more than their local mass market.
Click to expand...

tsubaya sells TF under their house brand, same for morihei's hisamoto white 1. I believe he sets up pop up shops in department stores as well. Just stropped my two denkas on bare leather and they are back to paper towel sharpness after no sharpening since mid jan.
 
arent fuji's considered project knives anyway? i assume heat treat is identical on nashiji line? if so, i would think best route is to just get one from that line directly cause theyre pretty cheap that way and do the work yourself or send it to someone for tweaking...
 
panda said:
arent fuji's considered project knives anyway? i assume heat treat is identical on nashiji line? if so, i would think best route is to just get one from that line directly cause theyre pretty cheap that way and do the work yourself or send it to someone for tweaking...
Click to expand...

through my experience, nashiji isn't done as hard as maboroshi (meaning the later actually has better edge retention) and denka is on another level.
 
I didn't know that but I'm not surprised given how entrepreneurial he is.
So it's not that he has no desire to sell to the traditional Japanese channels e.g. knife shops and dept stores, but that he feels he must also explore any other channels.
 
inzite said:
through my experience, nashiji isn't done as hard as maboroshi (meaning the later actually has better edge retention) and denka is on another level.
Click to expand...

Gaku told me that the Maboroshi and Nashiji use two different versions of Shirogami 1. The details were lost in translation but one has more or less carbon to compensate for carbon lost or gained during the forging process. He brought out a book from Hitachi to show the different properties. I think he meant that Maboroshi uses the version of Shirogami 1 engineered for forging and Nashiji uses a version more engineered for stock removal, even though both are forged.
 
TF does not use off the shelf W#1 and AS stock steel. They are custom produced by Hitachi based on the forging processes TF prefers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top