Thanks for having me, and a knife inquiry

[metal.for.dinner]

Hey everyone, I am new to this community and after having my time lurking I figured to go ahead and make an account. Thanks in advance for having me and responding with your thoughts!

So im in the market now for a knife within 130-150mm, does not necessarily have to be a petty but that is what ive been looking at so far. I have a few priorities id like to fulfill for this knife
- carbon steel, or stainless cladding over carbon
- Good knuckle clearance at the heel (29mm or greater should be okay)
- Minimal wedging / good food release

the last point may come down to thinness or grind, but im just not experienced enough to know which. I have had experience with a Kobayashi SG2 Bunka that was admittedly way too thin and fragile for me, and now my daily is a Takamura SG2 which is an absolute perfect knife. Im looking for similar performance to the Takamura in my next petty (yes yes I know they have a petty too! but AFAIK the knuckle clearance just isnt there and its also not carbon steel).

Some other things I would like but aren't necessary at all are Wa handle and a special finish, such as Nashiji or Kurouchi. But these are just dreams.

Some knives that I have seen that may fit the bill:
- Harukaze AS Morado 135 Petty
- Tsunehisa AS Sakura 135mm Petty
- Kohetsu Blue #2 Nashiji 135mm Petty
- Kohetsu AS Western petty 150mm
- Hitohira TD Blue #2 Stainless Clad Kurouchi 150mm Petty
- Gesshin Uraku White #2 Kurouchi 150mm petty
- Kato AS Kurouchi 150mm Petty

I would love to hear anyone's thoughts and start a conversation that I can learn from and get to build this hobby! I am admittedly an amateur with just a few Japanese knives but im here to change that

 

[Matus]

Welcome to the forums. Moving this into the spolight.

 

[Delat]

Hey everyone, I am new to this community and after having my time lurking I figured to go ahead and make an account. Thanks in advance for having me and responding with your thoughts!

So im in the market now for a knife within 130-150mm, does not necessarily have to be a petty but that is what ive been looking at so far. I have a few priorities id like to fulfill for this knife
- carbon steel, or stainless cladding over carbon
- Good knuckle clearance at the heel (29mm or greater should be okay)
- Minimal wedging / good food release

the last point may come down to thinness or grind, but im just not experienced enough to know which. I have had experience with a Kobayashi SG2 Bunka that was admittedly way too thin and fragile for me, and now my daily is a Takamura SG2 which is an absolute perfect knife. Im looking for similar performance to the Takamura in my next petty (yes yes I know they have a petty too! but AFAIK the knuckle clearance just isnt there and its also not carbon steel).

Some other things I would like but aren't necessary at all are Wa handle and a special finish, such as Nashiji or Kurouchi. But these are just dreams.

Some knives that I have seen that may fit the bill:
- Harukaze AS Morado 135 Petty
- Tsunehisa AS Sakura 135mm Petty
- Kohetsu Blue #2 Nashiji 135mm Petty
- Kohetsu AS Western petty 150mm
- Hitohira TD Blue #2 Stainless Clad Kurouchi 150mm Petty
- Gesshin Uraku White #2 Kurouchi 150mm petty
- Kato AS Kurouchi 150mm Petty

I would love to hear anyone's thoughts and start a conversation that I can learn from and get to build this hobby! I am admittedly an amateur with just a few Japanese knives but im here to change that

I have the Tsunehisa yo 135 in VG10 (the JCK blue clouds version) and the Kato AS 150. They’re both great knives but very different.

The Tsunihisa is thicker and sturdier, more of a do-everything and don’t worry about it kind of knife. It’s my wife’s go-to for most everything.

The Kato is thinner, lighter and more of a high-performance knife, probably close to your Takamura in spirit. It’s easy to get super sharp and glides through food - it’s my primary petty.

 

[metal.for.dinner]

I have the Tsunehisa yo 135 in VG10 (the JCK blue clouds version) and the Kato AS 150. They’re both great knives but very different.

The Tsunihisa is thicker and sturdier, more of a do-everything and don’t worry about it kind of knife. It’s my wife’s go-to for most everything.

The Kato is thinner, lighter and more of a high-performance knife, probably close to your Takamura in spirit. It’s easy to get super sharp and glides through food - it’s my primary petty.

Would the VG10 knife be comparable in shape/grind to the AS Sakura? Sorry I wasn’t able to find that knife on JCK anywhere to actually compare the measurements.

The Kato is definitely a strong contender if that’s the case. Does the 150 offer good knuckle clearance? Is it closer to a mini gyuto or sujihiki?

 

[Delat]

Would the VG10 knife be comparable in shape/grind to the AS Sakura? Sorry I wasn’t able to find that knife on JCK anywhere to actually compare the measurements.

The Kato is definitely a strong contender if that’s the case. Does the 150 offer good knuckle clearance? Is it closer to a mini gyuto or sujihiki?

The blue clouds is on this page. I don't know how it compares to the AS version: JCK Natures 青雲 "Blue Clouds" Series

Both of these are low pettys - you're not getting any knuckle clearance for serious board work. Basically you adjust your grip or work at the edge of the board. If you're looking for knuckle clearance in a short blade, maybe take a look at 165 santokus or ko-bunkas?

Here's a video of the Y Kato in use. Damn, I worry about my pinky whenever I see this video

 

[metal.for.dinner]

The blue clouds is on this page. I don't know how it compares to the AS version: JCK Natures 青雲 "Blue Clouds" Series

Both of these are low pettys - you're not getting any knuckle clearance for serious board work. Basically you adjust your grip or work at the edge of the board. If you're looking for knuckle clearance in a short blade, maybe take a look at 165 santokus or ko-bunkas?

Here's a video of the Y Kato in use. Damn, I worry about my pinky whenever I see this video

View attachment 189667

Ohh wow! I just remembered that I almost bought a blue clouds knife before I got my Takamura, because I thought they looked so cool. Is that a 135mm or 150 in the video? thats a nice looking knife as well, and super sharp.

So a little backstory, the reason I am interested in a petty is because my dad has this Zwilling 5.5" Prep Knife that I absolutely love using. I mean I dont really like the look of it, but the blade shape and feel are really great in my opinion. That knife is kind of a blend between petty and honesuki. The blade height at the heel is about 32mm, and personally I do have knuckle clearance when using that knife.

That being said, the Kato is about 28 or 29 based on multiple sources, and the Tsunehisa is around 30. That's one reason I was leaning towards one of the taller petty's in my list (the Kato being the shortest). The Hitohira is the tallest out of them at around 34mm but the others we havent talked about are like 30ish. In either case, I think most of them should be comfortable.

In terms of the steel type, do you think I would note much difference between AS, blue 2 and white 2? I have heard AS retains its edge better, but i'm not informed on much else. I have also considered S3 but that is stainless right? it wont patina much?

 

[superworrier]

When considering heel heights, consider that in some knives the top of the blade is flush with the top of the handle, and in other it's a bit lower. Example is Ashi knives where the the top of the blade is flush to the handle, but not in the Kato knife. This means the Kato knife is effectively taller for the same heel.

 

[metal.for.dinner]

When considering heel heights, consider that in some knives the top of the blade is flush with the top of the handle, and in other it's a bit lower. Example is Ashi knives where the the top of the blade is flush to the handle, but not in the Kato knife. This means the Kato knife is effectively taller for the same heel.

That is an excellent point! I had not even thought about that. With the Zwilling, they say the 34mm is the "product height", and that one is flush at the top of the blade. So Kato is likely similar in that case, and the Hitohira likely being even taller than the Zwilling. its too bad I cant see any of these knives in person before buying it.

 

[Delat]

Ohh wow! I just remembered that I almost bought a blue clouds knife before I got my Takamura, because I thought they looked so cool. Is that a 135mm or 150 in the video? thats a nice looking knife as well, and super sharp.

So a little backstory, the reason I am interested in a petty is because my dad has this Zwilling 5.5" Prep Knife that I absolutely love using. I mean I dont really like the look of it, but the blade shape and feel are really great in my opinion. That knife is kind of a blend between petty and honesuki. The blade height at the heel is about 32mm, and personally I do have knuckle clearance when using that knife.

That being said, the Kato is about 28 or 29 based on multiple sources, and the Tsunehisa is around 30. That's one reason I was leaning towards one of the taller petty's in my list (the Kato being the shortest). The Hitohira is the tallest out of them at around 34mm but the others we havent talked about are like 30ish. In either case, I think most of them should be comfortable.

In terms of the steel type, do you think I would note much difference between AS, blue 2 and white 2? I have heard AS retains its edge better, but i'm not informed on much else. I have also considered S3 but that is stainless right? it wont patina much?

The knife in the video is a Y Kato 150mm AS. I love AS, personally.

This thread might be helpful: A petty for your thoughts ? 150mm mini-gyuto style ?

Also check out ko-bunkas: Ko-Bunka

 

[superworrier]

I had a Y Kato Damascus SG2 150mm petty before. It was honestly very nice. Thin but not flexible. I may have used it off the board though.

 

[metal.for.dinner]

The knife in the video is a Y Kato 150mm AS. I love AS, personally.

This thread might be helpful: A petty for your thoughts ? 150mm mini-gyuto style ?

Also check out ko-bunkas: Ko-Bunka

Definitely a lot of good info in that thread.

The Mazaki may be a good option for me, with an impressive taper. Im a bit worried though since many have said it is super reactive compared to other carbons. What about Teruyasu Fujiwara? I found a seemingly good option on his direct site. In the other thread it received some good reviews. They also have a 150mm gyuto on the same site.

In general I dont want to stress about the height, either way I will get used to it. I really just want one that is on the thinner side. Seems like Y Kato may be the way to go unless you think Mazaki or TF would suit me better. (Btw if im leaving out important info on my cutting habits that could help please let me know)

 

[Delat]

Definitely a lot of good info in that thread.

The Mazaki may be a good option for me, with an impressive taper. Im a bit worried though since many have said it is super reactive compared to other carbons. What about Teruyasu Fujiwara? I found a seemingly good option on his direct site. In the other thread it received some good reviews. They also have a 150mm gyuto on the same site.

In general I dont want to stress about the height, either way I will get used to it. I really just want one that is on the thinner side. Seems like Y Kato may be the way to go unless you think Mazaki or TF would suit me better. (Btw if im leaving out important info on my cutting habits that could help please let me know)

Might want to read this BST post before committing to a brand new TF. That’s an extreme example, but TFs do have a lot of variation.

I haven’t used a Mazaki, but he does have a lot of fans here so maybe someone will chime in. For thin knives in that price range also check both Kurosakis (Yu and Makoto), and Shigeki Tanaka. You can also find them under the Masakage brand. If you go up a tiny bit in length then there’s this guy: Masakage Koishi AS Santoku 165mm

I don’t know if the santoku profile is curvy enough at the tip for you though. And in the 180 gyuto range you could have a look at Yoshikane which is amazing. Yoshikane Nashiji SKD Gyuto 180mm

Here’s a pic comparing 135, 150, 170, and 180 for reference.

 

[metal.for.dinner]

Might want to read this BST post before committing to a brand new TF. That’s an extreme example, but TFs do have a lot of variation.

I haven’t used a Mazaki, but he does have a lot of fans here so maybe someone will chime in. For thin knives in that price range also check both Kurosakis (Yu and Makoto), and Shigeki Tanaka. You can also find them under the Masakage brand. If you go up a tiny bit in length then there’s this guy: Masakage Koishi AS Santoku 165mm

I don’t know if the santoku profile is curvy enough at the tip for you though. And in the 180 gyuto range you could have a look at Yoshikane which is amazing. Yoshikane Nashiji SKD Gyuto 180mm

Here’s a pic comparing 135, 150, 170, and 180 for reference.
View attachment 189724

Yeah I definitely want to stay under 165mm. I already use my 170mm takamura santoku for near everything but sometimes feel like even that is too big for small tasks, and I also never let it touch any bone so theres that.

I did look at Masakage earlier. I think the Koishi AS Ko-Bunka 130mm may be a good option. But with the photo you just posted I am leaning towards the Kato. Kohetsu and Tsunehisa are still on my mind however, will have to sleep on it for a while.

 

[pomalo]

Might want to read this BST post before committing to a brand new TF. That’s an extreme example, but TFs do have a lot of variation.

I haven’t used a Mazaki, but he does have a lot of fans here so maybe someone will chime in. For thin knives in that price range also check both Kurosakis (Yu and Makoto), and Shigeki Tanaka. You can also find them under the Masakage brand. If you go up a tiny bit in length then there’s this guy: Masakage Koishi AS Santoku 165mm

I don’t know if the santoku profile is curvy enough at the tip for you though. And in the 180 gyuto range you could have a look at Yoshikane which is amazing. Yoshikane Nashiji SKD Gyuto 180mm

Here’s a pic comparing 135, 150, 170, and 180 for reference.
View attachment 189724

What are the knives in this lineup?? Beautiful specimens

 

[Delat]

From the top: JCK blue clouds VG10 (rebranded Tsunehisa), Yoshimi Kato stainless-clad AS, Yu Kurosaki Houou (“Phoenix”) VG10, Myojin SG2/R2.

 

[pomalo]

Beautiful! Thanks !!

 

[hendrix]

So what did you end up with and your thoughts on the particular knife?

Definitely a lot of good info in that thread.

The Mazaki may be a good option for me, with an impressive taper. Im a bit worried though since many have said it is super reactive compared to other carbons. What about Teruyasu Fujiwara? I found a seemingly good option on his direct site. …