Thoughts on a Sukenari HAP40 petty 165mm

[Rainmaker]

Anyone here with experience with a 165mm Sukenari HAP40 petty?

I plan to use it for meat fabrication/trimming and removal of silver skin. Secondary use would be to slice cooked steaks, although I have other knives for that.

I like Sukenari HAP40 petty because it’s HAP40 and has a 50/50 bevel.

I might prefer it as a 180mm but they don’t make those. The 210mm Sukenari HAP40 slicer, although might be a tad long would work as well but they’re all sold out.

A long petty/short sujihiki is the only real hole in my knife kit.

Do you guys think it would suit my intended purpose(s)?

 

[WiriWiri]

No direct experience of this particular range, but Sukenari generally make decent enough blades.

For those particular silverskin type tasks I’d still tend to favour a simpler carbon number - current fave is a YTanaka white petty for those purposes. PM steel and HAP40 definitely has its place and advantages, but whilst you can maintain a good edge for a very long time, ’peak’ sharpness still tends to decline reasonably quickly (and I want sharp for easy silverskin work) Unless you’re a confident sharpener I suspect it’s much easier to maintain carbon at that level, or at least that‘s my experience.

 

[memorael]

No direct experience of this particular range, but Sukenari generally make decent enough blades.

For those particular silverskin type tasks I’d still tend to favour a simpler carbon number - current fave is a YTanaka white petty for those purposes. PM steel and HAP40 definitely has its place and advantages, but whilst you can maintain a good edge for a very long time, ’peak’ sharpness still tends to decline reasonably quickly (and I want sharp for easy silverskin work) Unless you’re a confident sharpener I suspect it’s much easier to maintain carbon at that level, or at least that‘s my experience.

I have noted that particular effect on some knives, just never managed to put my finger on it. Some knives do hold a very sharp edge longer but then they get really blunt, white steel comes to mind. Some INOX steels then hold an edge a long ass time but the ultra sharp effect lasts very little.

Have you had any experience where different stones or sharpening methods give you a longer lasting edge? I once had a suisin INOX gyuto and the best combo I found for pro kitchen work was finishing on a king 6k... I know its not the fanciest stone but the edge I got after dialing it in was a real beauty. I would get one or two shifts max with a usable edge using the king 6k. I tried the naniwa 10k also but the edge, while sharper wouldn't last me a shift. Going lower on the grit side of things, didn't seem to help, the edge would also last less than a shift. I think the steel on those knives is something like AEBL.

 

[Jovidah]

Never used a Sukenari petty, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Sukenaris consistantly run a bit short. So cutting edge length will acutally be shy of 160.
Personally I would prefer something longer for slicing and trimming meat. Persoanlly I would take a 210 over a short 165 (which will be more like a long 150).
It's a bit of a cliché but you could consider taking the Ashi Ginga route most people take.

 

[JimMaple98]

I don’t have a Sukenari petty but I do have a sukenari hap40 gyuto, I can confidently say the value is definitely there in these knives. Great steel to use, I thought it was exaggerated in it’s reviews in terms of its retention but I can attest to it’s edge keeping.

just make sure you have some tough stones

 

[Rainmaker]

Never used a Sukenari petty, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Sukenaris consistantly run a bit short. So cutting edge length will acutally be shy of 160.
Personally I would prefer something longer for slicing and trimming meat. Persoanlly I would take a 210 over a short 165 (which will be more like a long 150).
It's a bit of a cliché but you could consider taking the Ashi Ginga route most people take.

I finally found a Sukenari HAP-40 210mm slicer. That it’s a bit shorter than than actually works for me!

I was initially planning to rebevel my older knives but after reading up on what’s involved, it seems like that’s going to,be a whole can of worms. So I‘m looking to gradually replace my older knives with HAP-40 and Aogami Super steels with 50/50 bevels for ease of sharpening and so I can take full advantage of the TSPROF K03 I intend to get. None of my older Japanese knives come with a 50/50 bevel…mostly 70/30 and 60/40.

I just recently purchased a Sukenari HAP-40 Gyuto. In addition to the Sukenari Sujihiki above, I was also thinking of the following:

- there’s a JCK Deep Impact petty in Aogami Super I’ll probably get to see if I like Aogami Super before committing to the more expensive AS knives. They go for $110. Not so bad to try out a steel.
- a Takeshi Saji nakiri in aogami super
- a 270 or 300mm sujihiki to replace my 300mm Masamoto CT Series sujihiki. Probably another Sukenari HAP-40 or I’ll try a Fujwara Teruyasu Denka. Seems like an interesting, if expensive, sujihiki.

 

[Rainmaker]

I don’t have a Sukenari petty but I do have a sukenari hap40 gyuto, I can confidently say the value is definitely there in these knives. Great steel to use, I thought it was exaggerated in it’s reviews in terms of its retention but I can attest to it’s edge keeping.

just make sure you have some tough stones

I‘m waiting for the 240/400 800/1200 Venev stones to arrive. I also replaced my cutting boards with Hasegawas and Asahis. And I’m about to pull the trigger on a TSProf K03. Talk about a rabbit hole! Hahahaha

 

[Jovidah]

I would inquire about the distal taper / thickness around the tip area before you order that 210. To me having a nice thin tapered tip really helps with trimming, silverskinning, etc.
The Sukenari gyuto I've had my hands on didn't excel in that department.

 

[Rainmaker]

I did ask about that specifically. They’ll send pics as soon as the knife arrives from Sukenari. This particular knife has a kiritsuke tip so I’m thinking that should work. But yes I’m waiting for pics and confirmation.

 

[Perzua]

I‘m waiting for the 240/400 800/1200 Venev stones to arrive. I also replaced my cutting boards with Hasegawas and Asahis. And I’m about to pull the trigger on a TSProf K03. Talk about a rabbit hole! Hahahaha

I have petty, suji and gyuto HAP40. Also have venev 400,800,1200 (Has and Asahi too ). 400 is pretty fast and 240 will be good for chips.

 

[Rainmaker]

I have petty, suji and gyuto HAP40. Also have venev 400,800,1200 (Has and Asahi too ). 400 is pretty fast and 240 will be good for chips.

Does your kitchen look like this too?

 

[Benuser]

Check the handle's size, since most pettys come with a crazy thin one.
Why is the 50/50 edge so important to you? In by far the most cases, the blade behind it is just as right-biased as with other Japanese blades. So, a left-hander will experience poor food release — in fact, produce sticking to the flat left face. For others, the 50/50 edge is a marketing gimmick. Those knives perform much better with an edge following their intrinsic asymmetry.

 

[Rainmaker]

Check the handle's size, since most pettys come with a crazy thin one.
Why is the 50/50 edge so important to you? In by far the most cases, the blade behind it is just as right-biased as with other Japanese blades. So, a left-hander will experience poor food release — in fact, produce sticking to the flat left face. For others, the 50/50 edge is a marketing gimmick. Those knives perform much better with an edge following their intrinsic asymmetry.

I’m getting a TSPROF K03. It’ll be easier for me that way.

 

[Benuser]

I’m getting a TSPROF K03. It’ll be easier for me that way.

Putting or maintaining a symmetric edge on a blade which isn't will eventually result in serious wedging and steering issues. Haven't seen much symmetric blades so far, and certainly no Japanese ones.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/asymmetry-–-the-real-deal.5656/

 

[Rainmaker]

My Sukenari HAP40 Gyuto. Seems symmetrical to me.

Isn’t it?

Because if I can’t see it then I can’t probably feel it when I’m sharpening freehand.

And if something like a TSPROF K03 will make it worse, I’m probably left with having to buy new knives everytime they get dull.

Oh no!

I did read the threads you linked. Thanks. But I now have a headache. That was a lot to digest. And I feel like someone peed in my cornflakes! Haha

 

[Benuser]

I would check with a ruler whether both sides feel the same. Normally the left side is flatter if not deadly flat, and the right one convexed to allow food release. With Japanese blades the edge is typically off-centered to the left.
From the choil shot I'd say the left side — the right on the picture — is indeed flat, and the edge clearly closer to that left side.

Here an example with a very fat boy — a yo-deba. When sharpening, you want the right bevel to form a continuous arc with the right face — left on the picture. On the left side you do whatever it takes to balance friction on both sides to reduce clockwise steering — generally by putting a straight bevel on it at a much higher angle.

 

[Perzua]

Does your kitchen look like this too?




View attachment 141675

Im sorry, no

 

[Justinv]

I’m getting a TSPROF K03. It’ll be easier for me that way.

I have not heard much about this system, what is the interest in this over a wicked edge that is able to do asymmetric blades, uses diamond stones, and does not require flipping and remounting the blade to do both sides?

 

[Jovidah]

And most of all why aren't you getting a Ken Onion Work Sharp?

 

[ModRQC]

Sukenari are usually noticeably asymmetrical. Not often sharpen as such OOTB though.

They vary a bit from unit to unit, but from a clear and complete choil shot, the asymmetry shows quite prominently.

I doubt they make different grinds that this one.

Below the AS gyuto. Closer to being symmetrical, yet asymmetry is obvious.

SG2 K-Tip - very pronounced asymmetry.

 

[Delat]

That k-tip is interesting - is it concave on the right side?

 

[Rainmaker]

From the website. But not too clear

 

[ModRQC]

From the website. But not too clear View attachment 141790

And not a straight shot. Nevertheless it looks typical Sukenari to me.