Venev Diamond Stones: what am I getting into?

[enchappo]

I have been working, a lot, on the NSK yesterday.
Two more observations : they are quite soft, not soft like a cerax 400 of course !, but soft like a hard whetstone like a shapton glass. So it's not soft but they will dish and you cant work with them like 30 minutes without flattening them. The 400 being the softest (but it a S so, normal). I guess all is compromise but I wish they would be a tad harder to be honest. Maybe a matter of preference but the work is so much more precise on harder stones. So like all stones, work as much all the surface of it as possible.

Second, even I had taste the diamond stones before with Practical sharpening and a Naniwa diamond 400, I was using still a lot a 200 grit whetstone and Naniwa pro 400 & 600. Diamonds stones really burnish while the normal whetstones are giving a kasumi (contrast between iron and steel, and within the iron, they will make dark the flatter part and burnish the high spots). And actually that effect of the whetstones is sometimes interesting for checking the surface. Yesterday, I was working and made progression 200, 400, 800 nsk, I knew one spot on my blade was a little critical but when working with the 800 the blade was looking good, scratch pattern even, so critical but was looking even enough. But going to a 1000 naniwa pro, I could see that there was a big high spot and the stone was hitting strongely there, so really not even enough.
So just be careful about that. They cut and make contact so well on the blade that they "hide" high spot a little. Consider to use a whetstone like Naniwa 1k or 2k in your progression, to check how the bevel will react with a softer stone that will make contrast.

That’s really useful info, thanks Milan!

Early on I used to really be bothered by the “streakiness” of my 800 and 3000 Choseras. Then I realised how much it told me about the bevel. Interesting idea to use them as part of the diamond stone progression to keep that diagnosis

 

[kayman67]

As the 80 grit Venev is quite agressive, I wonder if a 100 + 240 would not be better actually to advise to most people...

That's the route I took. But also have the 240/400.
I still find stones useful to even out scratches and move up sometimes.

 

[Barmoley]

Strictly for sharpening, especially high alloy steels, maybe excluding soft stainless, diamonds are hard to beat. Some say CBN might be even better for some applications, but these are not readily available in bench stones.

Once we start talking polishing, thinning soft cladding, etc other abrasives might be better. Besides, the abrasive is just one part of it as binder and construction play an important role too. So I would disagree that quality vitrified diamond stones are hype, they are great for sharpening all sorts of steels, very consistent and long lasting without extra fuss and mess. BBB stones are excellent, some of the best, not hype at all. I've also had very good experience with Practical sharpening stones, I've used 400 for all sorts of edge repairs and bevel settings and it is very fast on any steel I've tried including k390, 10V and s125v. For not vitrified JKI 1 and 6K are also very good. I don't think many claim that diamond stones are necessarily faster than other stones, especially on low alloy or soft stainless steels, but diamond stone's benefit is that it cuts all steels. For thinning soft cladding or polishing or creating contrast you are probably better off with something else. Right tool for the job sort of a thing

 

[Rangen]

Strictly for sharpening, especially high alloy steels, maybe excluding soft stainless, diamonds are hard to beat. Some say CBN might be even better for some applications, but these are not readily available in bench stones.

I'd not exclude soft stainless. Diamonds are the only thing that makes sharpening that tolerable.

 

[Barmoley]

I'd not exclude soft stainless. Diamonds are the only thing that makes sharpening that tolerable.

I didn't mean soft stainless as in knife edges, I meant soft stainless cladding.That with some diamond stones gets torn and gauged too much according to many reports. For soft stainless edges I agree, never had an issue.

 

[refcast]

I have a resin green colored diamond 3000 grit that I can get kasumi on, with wrought iron though. Diamond resin stones can also be gouged when sharpening chisels too hastily, so hahaha, be careful with those.

 

[Blank Blades.]

Just got my 80/150 today. Havent messed with it much yet, but i took a 10v nakiri I haven't ground really yet, just barely started taking down the corners basically.

I "thinned" it I guess you could call it. On the stone to see what would happen. And man. This thing is just what i was looking for. I was really impressed with how much material i was able to remove even 10v. Gonna mess with it more obviously. But i definitely see how he said someone that doesnt know what theyre doing could do a lot of damage.

 

[enchappo]

My 80/150 just arrived yesterday too. Had a quick play with it last night and I’m impressed - I think this will be a favourite for sure. Haven’t tried another stone after yet though, so will be interested to see how easy I find it to erase the scratches (and whether I got too careless and used too much pressure at any stage)

 

[Blank Blades.]

The 150 so far seems to pretty easily get rid of the 80 scratches. I have the 240/400, 1200/2000 now. Ill try the 240 after the 150 at some point when i really get around to using it.

 

[mockit]

Nice . Will be curious what you have to say about ocb vs. legacy. Others have mentioned the osb is a little soft for a coarse grinding stone. I have the 80/150 and 400/800 on the way from Hapstone so it’ll take a bit. I think it’s shipping out of Ukraine of all places! Do you think 150 to 400 or a SG500 is too big of a jump? I already have remorse over not getting the 100 to 240 as I think that’s a more sensical progression.

 

[enchappo]

Nice . Will be curious what you have to say about ocb vs. legacy. Others have mentioned the osb is a little soft for a coarse grinding stone. I have the 80/150 and 400/800 on the way from Hapstone so it’ll take a bit. I think it’s shipping out of Ukraine of all places! Do you think 150 to 400 or a SG500 is too big of a jump? I already have remorse over not getting the 100 to 240 as I think that’s a more sensical progression.

If I understand the gritomatic chart (big if, so corrections welcome!) there’s actually a fairly big jump between the 150 venev and 400 venev (which is circa 700JIS), and the SG500 comes down in the middle of those.

I would also be very interested to know what people are using after the venev 150, and whether the SG500 works for this.

 

[milangravier]

If I understand the gritomatic chart (big if, so corrections welcome!) there’s actually a fairly big jump between the 150 venev and 400 venev (which is circa 700JIS), and the SG500 comes down in the middle of those.
View attachment 234460

I would also be very interested to know what people are using after the venev 150, and whether the SG500 works for this.

I have tried different Nsk 400s after Venev 150 and was working perfectly fine. I even tried Naniwa pro 400 avec venev 150 and was working ok. A little coarser stone would do the job more easily and smoothly though

 

[enchappo]

I have tried different Nsk 400s after Venev 150 and was working perfectly fine. I even tried Naniwa pro 400 avec venev 150 and was working ok. A little coarser stone would do the job more easily and smoothly though

Thanks Milan!

 

[milangravier]

Thanks Milan!

I got the SG500, I will try Venev 150 then SG500 this week end if I have time

 

[Blank Blades.]

If you're doing edges. I think the jump up to the f400 is fine most likely.

Nice . Will be curious what you have to say about ocb vs. legacy. Others have mentioned the osb is a little soft for a coarse grinding stone. I have the 80/150 and 400/800 on the way from Hapstone so it’ll take a bit. I think it’s shipping out of Ukraine of all places! Do you think 150 to 400 or a SG500 is too big of a jump? I already have remorse over not getting the 100 to 240 as I think that’s a more sensical progression.

It depends which ocb, and which legacy i suppose. Everything from the 240 down is the legacy, and above is ocb. So I've had the 240 for a good bit to mess with. And of course the 400, 1200, and 2000 ocb stones.

The 400 is softer. The 1200 is definitely harder than the 400, and the 2000 is probably the hardest stone i have ever tried. Its glass like no tactile feedback really, just an absolutely hard stone.

 

[enchappo]

Can confirm that the jump from 150 venev to SG500 seems fine for a polishing progression too… didn’t take long at all to erase the 150 scratches, and no stray scratches visible in the final product even with only a rushed progression…

 

[Blank Blades.]

I'm working on a little ko bunka right now, and i ended up trying to jump from the 150f, to 400f venev. It did fine. Though its just a wrought iron clad w2 knife. So if it was something more wear resistant. I imagine i would have had to do a step at 240 between.

But idk. I think the thing about the 400 is it doesn't feel as fast as you might expect a 600 jis stone to be. But it seems to cut as fast (maybe faster) than you would expect from that grit. So basically the feedback isn't proportional.

Anyway. Just thought i would share.

 

[ReiHamono]

I think it’s important to switch between soft and hard stones. So fist stone is hard and uses something like diamond that cut in more while next stone is softer and uses Sic which cuts out more to open up cuts from pervious stones better

I’m recommending really low grit loose diamond powder to prevent cuts being too deep as the first stone

 

[enchappo]

I think it’s important to switch between soft and hard stones. So fist stone is hard and uses something like diamond that cut in more while next stone is softer and uses Sic which cuts out more to open up cuts from pervious stones better

I’m recommending really low grit loose diamond powder to prevent cuts being too deep as the first stone

What sort of micron do you recommend?

 

[ReiHamono]

Depends on how aggressive you need, we discussed experimenting with soap as well to help ensure not cutting too deep

I’m trying 70 grit now, but you can go all the way down to 50 grit if it’s needed.

All you have to do is collect it after use and control your water use well

Using loose diamond will help speed up the process and help prevent cutting too deep

You never have to level and you do not have to waste energy pushing down hard, instead you can 100% for use on geometry control while enjoying the fastest speed possible minus the risks

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HLGG5PE?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

What sort of micron do you recommend?

 

[enchappo]

I think it’s important to switch between soft and hard stones. So fist stone is hard and uses something like diamond that cut in more while next stone is softer and uses Sic which cuts out more to open up cuts from pervious stones better

I’m recommending really low grit loose diamond powder to prevent cuts being too deep as the first stone

What sort of micron do you recommend?

Depends on how aggressive you need, we discussed experimenting with soap as well to help ensure not cutting too deep

I’m trying 70 grit now, but you can go all the way down to 50 grit if it’s needed.

All you have to do is collect it after use and control your water use well

Using loose diamond will help speed up the process and help prevent cutting too deep

You never have to level and you do not have to waste energy pushing down hard, instead you can 100% for use on geometry control while enjoying the fastest speed possible minus the risks

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HLGG5PE?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Thanks so much!

 

[Blank Blades.]

Depends on how aggressive you need, we discussed experimenting with soap as well to help ensure not cutting too deep

I’m trying 70 grit now, but you can go all the way down to 50 grit if it’s needed.

All you have to do is collect it after use and control your water use well

Using loose diamond will help speed up the process and help prevent cutting too deep

You never have to level and you do not have to waste energy pushing down hard, instead you can 100% for use on geometry control while enjoying the fastest speed possible minus the risks

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HLGG5PE?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

How are you using it?

Like on a hard plate?

 

[ReiHamono]

I’m using my SP 120, only thing it’s good for

How are you using it?

Like on a hard plate?

 

[ReiHamono]

Ok, I ordered the Dragon.

Ordered from here

https://hapstone.pro/stones/diamond-and-cbn/venev-8-x-3-dragon-series-dual-side-diamond

 

[Blank Blades.]

Ok, I ordered the Dragon.

Ordered from here

View attachment 247393

https://hapstone.pro/stones/diamond-and-cbn/venev-8-x-3-dragon-series-dual-side-diamond

I think you will like it.

Not sure which grits you got.

My 80/150 i got i've had a lot more of a chance to use since picking it up.

The jobs I use this stone for i would say a much more extreme than what 99% of people will use them for most likely. So keep that in mind.

I have used it for final shaping on knives out of stuff like cpm m4, and 10v, getting out the 120 grit grind lines which can take a bit if using sandpaper even on normal steels. I've used them a little on some sand mai, and also messing with thinning failed honyaki attempts i have around. Stuff like that.

It does better on the high wear resistance than just about all of my conventional coarse stones. As some of you may remember i was looking around for a coarse stone friable enough to be efficient, and also very coarse.

Didn't find that, but this works well. If i press too hard, it can seem to dull the diamonds, and ill refresh the surface with a coars/extra coarse nagura i got from jki. Or sometimes if i just start using lighter pressure the cutting will get faster again. But it works much better than anything else so far. The king 220 was the only thing that worked well enough before this, but that still needed refreshing

For san mai, and normal steel, it seems to cut them no problem in my experience so far. The 80 might cut a bit deep in soft steel like milan mentioned, so just realize that, and factor that in when thinning.

The 150 i think i like even more than the 80 side. It seems to be a little softer maybe, and seems to cut just about as fast as the 80. So just using the 150 side for just thinning a knife is certainly an option.

Sharpening. Is about what you would expect. Its pretty fast. I mean its a stone made with coarse diamonds. It will apex things pretty quick. I haven't needed to repair chips specifically or anything but i imagine it will do well. But i wouldnt butter knife it. Since it could bite into the stone.

 

[ReiHamono]

Looking at the CGSW Resin Bonded Diamond 160 micron which should be around 90 grit also

I’m curious how these stack up against the Nsk 200

 

[milangravier]

Hi all !
I have made a little live on Instagram yesterday about Venev stones and how to use some tricks to make them work faster.
I have put the video on youtube too.
Please try those tricks and share yours if you have found some way to boost those stones.

 

[ReiHamono]

Milan,

Don’t forget that you can use diamond dust from China is inexpensive and it will maintain its sharpness without breaking down speeding things up and keeping them going

 

[milangravier]

Milan,

Don’t forget that you can use diamond dust from China is inexpensive and it will maintain its sharpness without breaking down speeding things up and keeping them going

Could you send me a link if you got one where to find that diamond powder ?

 

[enchappo]

Hi all !
I have made a little live on Instagram yesterday about Venev stones and how to use some tricks to make them work faster.
I have put the video on youtube too.
Please try those tricks and share yours if you have found some way to boost those stones.

I watched this this morning. Thank you (as always!) for sharing your tips and tricks.