Venev Diamond Stones: what am I getting into?

[dragjp]

Pmed you a link, sharp hair cut btw

 

[enchappo]

Pmed you a link, sharp hair cut btw

Please share for all of us in the cheap seats too!

And yes, noted the haircut as well

 

[dragjp]

Please share for all of us in the cheap seats too!

And yes, noted the haircut as well

Ah for sure, just search 'diamond powder' in Aliexpress. I was thinking the link might be blocked here.

 

[enchappo]

Ah for sure, just search 'diamond powder' in Aliexpress. I was thinking the link might be blocked here.

Thanks. Keen to try with some diamond dust or corundum powder, but in the meantime tonight am going to try with some debado 180 slurry.

I have also been using this as a cheap (and non messy!) option to refresh the surface: https://www.bunnings.com.au/trojan-concrete-rubbing-stone_p0423009

Not sure how it compares in effectiveness to corundum/SiC powder, esp. on the Venev. But it made me love my SG120 again (before I got the venev) and seems to work ok for me. Also clean and easy if you don’t have room for a tub of SiC and a marble plate.

 

[dragjp]

Yep, in Milan's previous post/story(?) he shared a way using a sic bar like this and sic powder together to clean up the surface. Worked well for me.

 

[kayman67]

Hi all !
I have made a little live on Instagram yesterday about Venev stones and how to use some tricks to make them work faster.
I have put the video on youtube too.
Please try those tricks and share yours if you have found some way to boost those stones.

Great things put together.
100 side is faster, but I guess all things considered, won't make much difference.
80 I used only for repairs. Definitely the better choice for those.
I also did some things just as part of my all time routines. I'm big on dressing stones. For example I use a soft SiC dressing stone to surface and speed it up, much like all that approach you had. Really nice.
Unfortunately, even Venev would dish and they do require flattening, but at lower grits it's definitely slower process versus resin ones. At higher grits there's barely any difference.
I found diamond on diamond not the best practice. Has a weird tendency to cancel out as they break each other faster. So I usually use diamond spray on regular stones.

 

[milangravier]

Great things put together.
100 side is faster, but I guess all things considered, won't make much difference.
80 I used only for repairs. Definitely the better choice for those.
I also did some things just as part of my all time routines. I'm big on dressing stones. For example I use a soft SiC dressing stone to surface and speed it up, much like all that approach you had. Really nice.
Unfortunately, even Venev would dish and they do require flattening, but at lower grits it's definitely slower process versus resin ones. At higher grits there's barely any difference.
I found diamond on diamond not the best practice. Has a weird tendency to cancel out as they break each other faster. So I usually use diamond spray on regular stones.

From my experience, 80 grit, 100 grit, 150 grit and 240 grits are very hard bonding and barely move. I check them with rectified ruller. From 400 and above, it is not same resin (unfortunately), OCB one if I remember well and it is much softer and would react like other diamond stones (naniwa or nsk), even softer I would say

 

[milangravier]

Milan,

Don’t forget that you can use diamond dust from China is inexpensive and it will maintain its sharpness without breaking down speeding things up and keeping them going

I may try it, but I just thought... well corindon is working fine and I got kilos of it. In France you can buy 1kg of 300 grit corindon for 7 euros...

 

[kayman67]

From my experience, 80 grit, 100 grit, 150 grit and 240 grits are very hard bonding and barely move. I check them with rectified ruller. From 400 and above, it is not same resin (unfortunately), OCB one if I remember well and it is much softer and would react like other diamond stones (naniwa or nsk), even softer I would say

OCB is still a resin equivalent. The idea behind it was to cut as good as possible, but not chip very hard alloys at low angles. So there's a tradeoff we need to accept.
The others are boron based if I remember correctly and sintered to the metal.

 

[milangravier]

OCB is still a resin equivalent. The idea behind it was to cut as good as possible, but not chip very hard alloys at low angles. So there's a tradeoff we need to accept.
The others are boron based if I remember correctly and sintered to the metal.

Yeah totally. But all people reading me need to remember I am interested in using those venev stones mostly for grinding/shaping/polishing wide bevels on san mai blades. I am changing the purpose of those stones in a way that were design indeed for sharpening high alloy steel knives

 

[Blank Blades.]

From my experience, 80 grit, 100 grit, 150 grit and 240 grits are very hard bonding and barely move. I check them with rectified ruller. From 400 and above, it is not same resin (unfortunately), OCB one if I remember well and it is much softer and would react like other diamond stones (naniwa or nsk), even softer I would say

I like the finish on the 400 tho too bad mine is basically dead now

 

[Strozzi]

Is there a big difference between the 100 and 150? I ordered the 100/240 and they just emailed me and said it was out of stock but they have the 150/240. I want to use this stone as my coarsest stone for thinning and fixing bevels.

 

[milangravier]

Is there a big difference between the 100 and 150? I ordered the 100/240 and they just emailed me and said it was out of stock but they have the 150/240. I want to use this stone as my coarsest stone for thinning and fixing bevels.

Well there is a little difference but it's not like if you have the choice...
I got 80/150 and 240/400. I use 150 a lot, feel more engagement than the 80. 240 works great too but not as fast as 150.

 

[Strozzi]

Thank you @milangravier. I just watched your video on tricks to get the 150 to cut faster. I think it will be fine for my needs so I went ahead and got it.

 

[Blank Blades.]

Looking at coase bonded diamond stones to step in, instead of my venev for thinning wear resistant monosteel. The venevs are the best i've used so far. At least compared to the more traditional stones and plates.

Anyway. I see this. But i have a feeling its not what i want. But idk if anyone here has tried this line from nsk yet. I think going with the softer lines would be best, since i just want speed. That or im still considering a lapidary grinder, i can throw diamond plates on. Since i could get one for this price.

 

[ReiHamono]

I have 200-2k, these are the ones

Harder with more diamonds = way faster

I’ll try the 4k and 6k next

Also, consider the FSK 400 = ~250grit in reality

Looking at coase bonded diamond stones to step in, instead of my venev for thinning wear resistant monosteel. The venevs are the best i've used so far. At least compared to the more traditional stones and plates.

Anyway. I see this. But i have a feeling its not what i want. But idk if anyone here has tried this line from nsk yet. I think going with the softer lines would be best, since i just want speed. That or im still considering a lapidary grinder, i can throw diamond plates on. Since i could get one for this price.

View attachment 286060

 

[blokey]

Looking at coase bonded diamond stones to step in, instead of my venev for thinning wear resistant monosteel. The venevs are the best i've used so far. At least compared to the more traditional stones and plates.

Anyway. I see this. But i have a feeling its not what i want. But idk if anyone here has tried this line from nsk yet. I think going with the softer lines would be best, since i just want speed. That or im still considering a lapidary grinder, i can throw diamond plates on. Since i could get one for this price.

View attachment 286060

If you are interested to try Vitrified 400 I could be of help, recently got a FSK, quite good but does load up. Can’t sharpen for long due to back surgery, so won’t be missing a lot if you use it for couple weeks

 

[Blank Blades.]

If you are interested to try Vitrified 400 I could be of help, recently got a FSK, quite good but does load up. Can’t sharpen for long due to back surgery, so won’t be missing a lot if you use it for couple weeks

I just dont want to deal with loading. My venev is hard enough where i have to refresh it to keep it cutting on 10v and stuff.

 

[Blank Blades.]

I have 200-2k, these are the ones

Harder with more diamonds = way faster

I’ll try the 4k and 6k next

Also, consider the FSK 400 = ~250grit in reality

Really? I would think slightly softer would be fastest, since it wouldnt load, or the diamonds wouldnt dull as much.

 

[ReiHamono]

This is the fastest 200 grit stone I’ve ever used. It was fun and easy to use.

Having enough water seemed to prevent the loading. You need to invest in a low grit diamond flattening plate like the 200 NSK, it was amazing and fast.

That way if it does happen to load you can just hit it really quickly with the flattening stone. Also, using a slurry seemed to help a lot.

This is on Swedish white steel from Heiji

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Fepa f150 is closer to 180 jis.

This is actually incorrect. FEPA F and JIS R 6001, as well as ANSI B74.12 and GB 2477-83, all share the same sieve-grade specifications. This is annotated on my chart in the "ANSI Bonded" column with "24–220 common to ..." The variance and range bars are merely omitted from the other columns to save space and clutter.

It should be noted that Venev diamond are not actually a FEPA F product as that standard does not apply to superabrasives. Rather these are convenience-equivalents from the actual GOST 9206 grades. Observe the original markings in these photographs.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

If I understand the gritomatic chart (big if, so corrections welcome!) there’s actually a fairly big jump between the 150 venev and 400 venev (which is circa 700JIS), and the SG500 comes down in the middle of those.

I am the creator of that chart. Please see the README and if you have any questions that are not addressed therein I will be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

 

[Jeff]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is SiC? Edi: nvm I’m dumb lol

SiC = Silicon Carbide