WTB Vintage Sabatier 7-10” (or German, Green River)

[Choppin]

hi all!

looking for vintage carbon chef knives, from 7 to 10 inches (edge length).

specially Sabatier, Russel Green River and German knives with Sabatier-like profile (not too much belly).

any condition is fine as long as the heel height is decent (>45mm for a 10” for instance).

thanks!


edit: expanded the criteria.

 

[deltaplex]

I think you can order ones made in the 50's-60's direct from K-Sab still. The ones usually on eBay go for too much if they're in decent shape (or if they're in crap shape but rare) IMO.

 

[tminus]

Bernal Cutlery usually has a rotation of vintage carbon Sabs. Looks like they only have 11-13in at the moment though.

 

[Choppin]

I think you can order ones made in the 50's-60's direct from K-Sab still. The ones usually on eBay go for too much if they're in decent shape (or if they're in crap shape but rare) IMO.

K-Sab seems like a solid source, they have no 8-inch in stock but I emailed them anyway. we’ll see.

I’m looking at eBay also but the 8” size apparently is hard to find (and expensive like you mentioned)

 

[Benuser]

I would look for NOS — new old stock — but they are becoming more and more rare. They have got a new grinding which excludes a lot of troubles. With other, used ones: in the best cases, they are project knives. Damaged tips, neglected, protruding fingerguards and the resulting reverse belly ('frown'). Blades having become far too fat behind the edge.
Worse: what you can't see. Steel that just doesn't take an edge, after years and years of heavy steeling. A temper that has been lost after uncooled sharpening on grinding wheels, which was very, very common. Rare, but not uncommon: impurities that have lead to clustered carbides. If moving to the edge, 1 or 2 millimetres are to be abraded. If they are slightly deeper, they may lead to a hairline breakage and the knife is lost.
And the prices have terribly risen. There has been gross market manipulation — stories about modern steel being recycled from old cars, including plastic components. In no time in history steel composition is so well controlled as today, and ignorance about the actual composition is exactly typical of vintages. Such stories have been spread by guys who have scoured all French flea markets and made their fortune since.

 

[Ericfg]

A bit off topic but I've got a Russell Green River Works honing rod you can have if that's your collecting focus.

 

[Choppin]

I would look for NOS — new old stock — but they are becoming more and more rare. They have got a new grinding which excludes a lot of troubles. With other, used ones: in the best cases, they are project knives. Damaged tips, neglected, protruding fingerguards and the resulting reverse belly ('frown'). Blades having become far too fat behind the edge.
Worse: what you can't see. Steel that just doesn't take an edge, after years and years of heavy steeling. A temper that has been lost after uncooled sharpening on grinding wheels, which was very, very common. Rare, but not uncommon: impurities that have lead to clustered carbides. If moving to the edge, 1 or 2 millimetres are to be abraded. If they are slightly deeper, they may lead to a hairline breakage and the knife is lost.
And the prices have terribly risen. There has been gross market manipulation — stories about modern steel being recycled from old cars, including plastic components. In no time in history steel composition is so well controlled as today, and ignorance about the actual composition is exactly typical of vintages. Such stories have been spread by guys who have scoured all French flea markets and made their fortune since.

thanks, very useful information!

I have no problem with projects knives, they are actually preferred if it means a good price. but only within the “best case” you described. I wasn’t aware of the lost temper issues but it makes perfect sense.

about market manipulation - 90% of vintage Sabs on eBay seem to come from the same handful of sellers… and they usually have the worse prices. I recently got a 12” Sabatier in pretty good condition for a fair price from a guy that sells random antique stuff (I think it was the only Sabatier in his shop).

 

[Choppin]

A bit off topic but I've got a Russell Green River Works honing rod you can have if that's your collecting focus.

appreciate the offer but I’m not really focused on vintage stuff - just looking to try something different

 

[Benuser]

By the way, if you're looking for a vintage Sab, have a Nogent, a no later full tang. Very light handle, forward balance.

 

[Choppin]

damn I missed Bernal’s 8” Nogent… that one looked good

expanded the criteria to include some German knives

 

[Benuser]

damn I missed Bernal’s 8” Nogent… that one looked good

expanded the criteria to include some German knives

German Nogents I've seen had a neutral balance, due to the massive handle, while the French either have original ebony handles who are bored down the center with a large diameter hole, leaving just a thin web of wood on the sides. Or with NOS ones who are massive, but from beech, which is very light. The original French where replaceable, in times where both ebony and labour where plenty available and cheap.

 

[Choppin]

German Nogents I've seen had a neutral balance, due to the massive handle, while the French either have original ebony handles who are bored down the center with a large diameter hole, leaving just a thin web of wood on the sides. Or with NOS ones who are massive, but from beech, which is very light. The original French where replaceable, in times where both ebony and labour where plenty available and cheap.

interesting! a neutral balance makes sense on heavier knives IMO, like 12-14” chef knives

 

[Benuser]

You may move your grip as well. That's how I got very quickly used to a French forward balanced 290mm, 11.4".

 

[Benuser]

https://www.sabatier-k.com/cuisine-28-cm-nogent-carbone.htlm

 

[Benuser]

https://www.sabatier-k.com/cuisine-28-cm-nogent-carbone.htlm

A little warning, though. These knives come with a short thick appendix — I'm sorry, have no better word — just in front of the fingerguard — probably meant for gross tasks as cutting rind — which is not in line with the edge and hinders the use of the entire length on the board. A frown out of the box. They are present on all lengths, even on a 150mm. A strange idea even those short ones weren't used on the middle of the board. I regret I can't show you because I removed them on all my NOS Sabs. No big deal, by the way. Just accept that the blade is very thick close to the fingerguard.

 

[Choppin]

le bump

 

[Choppin]

bump! specially looking for Nogents