What’s a good White #1/2 equivalent of my Y. Kato Gyuto?

[dctwells]

I’m hoping to get some recommendations on a new gyuto for work. My current favorite is a 210mm Yoshimi Kato Tsushima SG2 gyuto from Sharp Knife Shop.

I like pretty much everything about it except the steel. Feels great, great cutter, great food release, doesn’t feel too fragile, not too thick, perfect size (although I’d like it even a bit taller).

The problem for me is that I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t like high speed powdered steel as much as easy to sharpen carbon like White #1 or 2. What knives should I be considering? My budget is $300-400 USD.

 

[esoo]

Since you like the knife so much, maybe get some Venev diamond stones and make the SG2 easier to sharpen?

 

[dctwells]

Yeah, I have some Shapton stones that are great for sharpening some of my other knives but with my SG2 knives it’s VERY slow going.

Aside from the sharpening I also don’t really like how the powdered steel feels when it’s anything less than screaming sharp. Hard to explain…… it feels dull even when it’s not. With the white steel I get a toothiness that just feels better.

 

[Cliff]

R2 will hold that toothiness much, much better, especially if you're a pro. The JKI 6K stone will set you back less than a new knife, not that I would try to talk you out of something new. Venev is, I think, less than that, but availability is hard now. I'd be more likely to use powdered stainless in a pro kitchen.

If you want carbon, I'd lean towards Moritaka in AS, though they are not that tall. In white no. 2, I love Munetoshi. Those are a pleasure to sharpen. You might look for Heiji in carbon or semi-stainless.

 

[Strozzi]

What is your normal sharpening progression for SG2?

 

[kdizzog6]

I’m hoping to get some recommendations on a new gyuto for work. My current favorite is a 210mm Yoshimi Kato Tsushima SG2 gyuto from Sharp Knife Shop.

I like pretty much everything about it except the steel. Feels great, great cutter, great food release, doesn’t feel too fragile, not too thick, perfect size (although I’d like it even a bit taller).

The problem for me is that I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t like high speed powdered steel as much as easy to sharpen carbon like White #1 or 2. What knives should I be considering? My budget is $300-400 USD.

I thought I was the only one. There is something about the powders that I really dont like. I much prefer a carbon. I dislike gin3 with a passion, I feel i can get my carbons scary sharp in a quick easy manor, I went to town on a couple sg2 / r2, and gin3 and no matter what stone, I just cant get them where i want them. I enjoy the whole process of sharpening and the satisfaction when it pops hairs off your arm, Ill just stick with what Im good at. Good luck on your search. My TxK in blue 1 just gives me the biggest grin when I use it for prep, and the joy of the feedback on the stones.

 

[Cliff]

I don't love R2 either in terms of feel, especially sharpening. There's a tinny quality to it. But for retention, especially if you have acidic ingredients, I wouldn't be without one.

If you like to sharpen, I say Munetoshi, Moritaka, or Heiji.

Have you tried SKD? Yoshikane can feel a little fragile, but it is the best of both worlds in terms of feel with edge holding.

 

[Dave]

Isn’t the Masakage Yuki line Shiro? Those are relatively inexpensive and they’re Y. Kato

 

[JASinIL2006]

Isn’t the Masakage Yuki line Shiro? Those are relatively inexpensive and they’re Y. Kato

The Yukis are nice and would be a good choice, but isn't the blacksmith Hiroshi Kato?

http://www.masakageknives.com/craftsmen_hiroshikato.html

 

[Dave]

The Yukis are nice and would be a good choice, but isn't the blacksmith Hiroshi Kato?

http://www.masakageknives.com/craftsmen_hiroshikato.html

Used to be, but the Yuki, Koishi, and Kiri lines were recently taken over by Yoshimi, Hiroshi's his son-in-law.

 

[dctwells]

I don't love R2 either in terms of feel, especially sharpening. There's a tinny quality to it. But for retention, especially if you have acidic ingredients, I wouldn't be without one.

If you like to sharpen, I say Munetoshi, Moritaka, or Heiji.

Have you tried SKD? Yoshikane can feel a little fragile, but it is the best of both worlds in terms of feel with edge holding

I have tried a Yoshikane Nashini SKD 240, in fact it’s currently for sale here on the forum! Objectively it’s a great knife in every way …. But for me it’s 1) too long for my tiny workspace 2) too fragile feeling 3) and I still don’t like steel. It feels kind of “fake” if that makes sense at all.

The problem really started when I bought a TF Maboroshi Bunka. It’s kind of ruined all my current knives for me lol. The metal feels alive in my hand in a way none of my other knives (Kato, Kobayashi, Takamura, Shibata) do. The reactivity is not a problem for me, and maintaining a super sharp edge has been a revelation. I’m honestly not a great sharpener and my attention span for knife maintenance is like five minutes or less.

 

[dctwells]

R2 will hold that toothiness much, much better, especially if you're a pro. The JKI 6K stone will set you back less than a new knife, not that I would try to talk you out of something new. Venev is, I think, less than that, but availability is hard now. I'd be more likely to use powdered stainless in a pro kitchen.

If you want carbon, I'd lean towards Moritaka in AS, though they are not that tall. In white no. 2, I love Munetoshi. Those are a pleasure to sharpen. You might look for Heiji in carbon or semi-stainless.

Munetoshi is definitely one that keeps popping up in my research, along with Mazaki, Wakui, and a few knives forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka.

 

[dctwells]

Based on everything I’ve tried, this is what the stats for my new Gyuto would be…

Length: 210mm
Height: 50mm
Handle: wa (no plastic ferrule)
Steel; White #1/2, either stainless or iron clad
Edge: 50/50 (I’m left handed)
Food release: Awesome!
Finish: not picky
Price: $300-400 USD
Use: professional kitchen (for prep and food production, not in service)

 

[M1k3]

Based on everything I’ve tried, this is what the stats for my new Gyuto would be…

Length: 210mm
Height: 50mm
Handle: wa (no plastic ferrule)
Steel; White #1/2, either stainless or iron clad
Edge: 50/50 (I’m left handed)
Food release: Awesome!
Finish: not picky
Price: $300-400 USD
Use: professional kitchen (for prep and food production, not in service)

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/

 

[tostadas]

Munetoshi is definitely one that keeps popping up in my research, along with Mazaki, Wakui, and a few knives forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka.

You can't go wrong with any of those picks.

 

[yoyoma]

Used to be, but the Yuki, Koishi, and Kiri lines were recently taken over by Yoshimi, Hiroshi's his son-in-law.

Been at least 5-6 years under Yoshimi Kato.

 

[yoyoma]

Based on everything I’ve tried, this is what the stats for my new Gyuto would be…

Length: 210mm
Height: 50mm
Handle: wa (no plastic ferrule)
Steel; White #1/2, either stainless or iron clad
Edge: 50/50 (I’m left handed)
Food release: Awesome!
Finish: not picky
Price: $300-400 USD
Use: professional kitchen (for prep and food production, not in service)

You can get a 210mm Teruyasu Fujiwara Mabaroshi (Shirogami #1 at 65 HRC) direct from the maker for $275 USD + shipping. Knifewear listing shows it at 210mm x 50mm.

https://www.teruyasu.net/products/japanese_knife_gyuto_maboroshi.html (make sure to select the Japanese handle at the bottom of the page.

 

[dctwells]

You can get a 210mm Teruyasu Fujiwara Mabaroshi (Shirogami #1 at 65 HRC) direct from the maker for $275 USD + shipping. Knifewear listing shows it at 210mm x 50mm.

https://www.teruyasu.net/products/japanese_knife_gyuto_maboroshi.html (make sure to select the Japanese handle at the bottom of the page)



Getting the same knife in the form (210x50 gyuto) that you want seems to be a no brainer here. Below budget too.

No doubt, as soon as I got the bunka I had visions of my knife bag full of nothing but Maborishis! But - I can’t find them anywhere except for ordering direct, and I have a feeling I lucked out with the bunka in terms of f&f. I got it from Sharp Knife Shop and it has zero issues that I can find. I don’t want to order one from the factory, wait 2-3 months, and then be stuck with a dud.

 

[dctwells]

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/

Those look awesome ….. how’s the food release with these?

 

[M1k3]

Those look awesome ….. how’s the food release with these?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I have tried a Yoshikane Nashini SKD 240, in fact it’s currently for sale here on the forum! Objectively it’s a great knife in every way …. But for me it’s 1) too long for my tiny workspace 2) too fragile feeling 3) and I still don’t like steel. It feels kind of “fake” if that makes sense at all.

The problem really started when I bought a TF Maboroshi Bunka. It’s kind of ruined all my current knives for me lol. The metal feels alive in my hand in a way none of my other knives (Kato, Kobayashi, Takamura, Shibata) do. The reactivity is not a problem for me, and maintaining a super sharp edge has been a revelation. I’m honestly not a great sharpener and my attention span for knife maintenance is like five minutes or less.

Might also consider Unshu Yukimitsu. I really liked the steel on the one I had. Never had a TF but those who have had both compare the steels favorably.

Can't help with grind/profile comparison.

https://knifejapan.com/shop-by-maker/unshu-yukimitsu-hamono-shimane/

He was taking custom size orders. Not sure if that is still a thing or how long the wait.

 

[Beerzebub]

Might also consider Unshu Yukimitsu. I really liked the steel on the one I had. Never had a TF but those who have had both compare the steels favorably.

Can't help with grind/profile comparison.

https://knifejapan.com/shop-by-maker/unshu-yukimitsu-hamono-shimane/

He was taking custom size orders. Not sure if that is still a thing or how long the wait.

I got a custom-size Unshu Yukimitsu late last year and it took a little under two and a half months from contacting Michael at Knife Japan to receiving the knife. Nailed the size I requested (255x53). You (OP) could ask Michael about the 50/50/lefty issue, he's super helpful. I haven't used the knife yet because I've slacked on getting a handle on it, but by all accounts the steel is an excellent treatment of white 1.
(EDIT: by the way, I just checked the invoice and current exchange rate and it was within your price range).

 

[dctwells]

Nice! The Munetoshi food release looks great, especially compared to that sticky-a** nakiri in the video lol.

 

[M1k3]

Nice! The Munetoshi food release looks great, especially compared to that sticky-a** nakiri in the video lol.

It is good. I'm definitely keeping mine!

The Nakiri's food release definitely chokes on hard and dense food, but slays onions.

 

[dctwells]

Can anybody comment on it how a Munetoshi and Mazaki would compare, both with a KU finish?

 

[Beerzebub]

Can anybody comment on it how a Munetoshi and Mazaki would compare, both with a KU finish?

I probably shouldn't even chime in because my one Mazaki is a suji and I'm comparing with a Munetoshi gyuto; but I will anyway and others can add more and better info.

The main differences in my limited experience are that Mazaki has more continuous distal taper and gets thinner towards the tip, and better fit and finish in terms of smooth choil and spine (but on the Munetoshi you can do that yourself of course), and may be a bit harder than the Munetoshi but I'm not sure about that. The Munetoshi feels more rugged (like you don't worry or baby the knife at all) and the steel has more of that 'alive' feel you mentioned, and is probably my favorite steel to sharpen, it just feels great in use and on the stones. But the Mazaki is pretty easy to sharpen too.

 

[tostadas]

Can anybody comment on it how a Munetoshi and Mazaki would compare, both with a KU finish?

Munetoshi - thicker behind the edge, more curvy profile, less tall of a "neck", grind varies but tends to be slight concave

Mazaki - assuming newest profile, thinner behind the edge and up to mid blade, less curvy profile toward the heel compared to munetoshi, fuller "neck", more convex grind

I've had multiple of both makers. If we're to choose, it would be mazaki hands down in all categories. It feels better in hand due to the fuller neck area, and profile is smoother due to more gradual curve.

 

[dctwells]

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/

Does that KU finish flake off? I’m seeing Munetoshi gyutos available in kuroichi and migaki finishes. I’m trying to consider food release and all around least amount of hassle. Any thoughts on the migaki finished Munetoshis at Knifewear?

 

[panda]

munetoshi despite being white steel does not feel great on stones, you're being mislead there. and neither does mazaki. both decent knives tho.

yoshikane would fit what youre looking for minus the blade height.

 

[M1k3]

Does that KU finish flake off? I’m seeing Munetoshi gyutos available in kuroichi and migaki finishes. I’m trying to consider food release and all around least amount of hassle. Any thoughts on the migaki finished Munetoshis at Knifewear?

Eventually all KU will fall off with use. The KU on mine has been pretty durable, only really wearing away where I pinch grip.

P.S. The steel is perfectly fine sharpening it. It's White steel that was heat treated well.