Which 1000/6000 stone to buy?

[RonB]

Just to get an idea, I checked Amazon to look at stones. There are a bunch of 1000/6000 stones that vary in price from ~ $17 to ~ $51. Some had bases - some not. King stones in that combo varied from ~ $25 to ~ $51. The HornTide had the best reviews, but only 12. King was one of the lowest rated....

How is anyone supposed to decide which combo stone to buy? The answer seems to be to ask here. :biggrin: So I am looking for recommendations which stone to buy for use on my first J-knife, (Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm). BUT - there may be more nice knives in my future. :scratchhead:

Thanx ~ Ron

Or do I need different grits??

 

[Benuser]

Why a combination stone?

 

[K813zra]

King stones are classic but a bit slow on steels such as R2, good feedback on the 800, 1000 and 12000. The 6000 is a good stone but not a great stone. They all are soft and wear fast. The lower grit stones require a soak but the 6000 does not, such is the case with many combo stones which makes soaking them require slightly more care. I like the Cerax 6k stone too but it is not leaps and bounds better.

I like my stones not to be attached. If I could only have one water stone it would be a shapton pro 2k. If I could have two it would be a Shapton Pro 1k and Kitayama 8k. I prefer having all three and an Imanishi pink brick too. Of course an Atoma 140 added to that is great and maybe a balsa or felt strop with 1 micron diamond spray.

 

[RonB]

Why a combination stone?

Not to be flippant, but why not? :scratchhead: At one retailer, the cost of a combo stone is $65 while the cost of a 1000 plus a 6000 is $125 - same brand and quality.

Thanx Ron

 

[milkbaby]

I can't recommend any specific choice, and I'm not saying the random assortment of brands on Amazon aren't good, but for the small price savings, you might as well stick to an established Japanese brand than a cheapo Chinese special. Even if the Japanese brand was made in China, I don't know if the quality control for the generic Chinese brands is as good.

I think the King combo has the largest number of low ratings because it probably has the largest number of ratings period.

I agree a combo stone can be a good choice for somebody not wanting to spend a lot of money and is looking to sharpen a few knives only occasionally.

 

[K813zra]

Not to be flippant, but why not? :scratchhead: At one retailer, the cost of a combo stone is $65 while the cost of a 1000 plus a 6000 is $125 - same brand and quality.

Thanx Ron

I know one fellow who used to refer to them as false economy. They are often times smaller in length and width than individual stones but not always. Most of the time they are significantly thinner than a single stone of each grit too. With some of the softer 1k stones this is significant because it is a stone that dishes quickly. Generally speaking, I think they are fine for a utility sharpener.

 

[andur]

A big disadvantage, in my opinion, of combination stones is you cannot rub one against the other to lap them. If you had 1000 and 6000 stones separately you wouldn't need a lapping plate. All stones will dish and very soon you'll need a lapping plate if you don't have at least two (three is better) stones. As you progress and acquire more stones you can get a diamond plate but for starting out two stones is a good combination.

I don't use a lapping plate too often in my daily cooking. Every time I use my stones (Shapton Pro is my go-to setup) I rub my 1000, 5000, 12000 against each other and start sharpening. I would highly recommend the Shapton Pro range as well as the Shapton Glass. Maybe even the Pro first because they are thicker (I've worn out my first shapton glass as part of a learning curve).

 

[HRC_64]

Also agree with the above posters that the better/best stone setup is a pair of stones.

You can get the same deal on the cerax/rika for the same price as combo ($80) as separate stones.
Also, for same price you can get pair of shapton Ha No Kuromaku 1k and 5k stones from amazon for ~$85.

 

[RonB]

Thanx all for the comments. I think I have decided on a Shapton Pro 1000 and a Kitayama 8000 for sharpening my first J-knife, (Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm). :dazed: If anyone objects to this weddin - er - purchase, speak now or forever hold your peace.
:razz:

Ron

 

[daveb]

Objection.

The combo stone concept certainly has some merit with the right stone. Cheap combos are not the right stone. Combo's with a 1/4" coarse side and a 1/2" fine side are not the right stone. The King 1/6K will work, though not particularly well - too slow and soft and too much orange mud going down the drain.

I keep a Gesshin 1/6K stone at work in a third pan. Single stone to keep up with. Each side is same size as a full size stone. Soaks for a min or three in the pan and ready to use for a quickie.

 

[K813zra]

Objection.

The combo stone concept certainly has some merit with the right stone. Cheap combos are not the right stone. Combo's with a 1/4" coarse side and a 1/2" fine side are not the right stone. The King 1/6K will work, though not particularly well - too slow and soft and too much orange mud going down the drain.

I keep a Gesshin 1/6K stone at work in a third pan. Single stone to keep up with. Each side is same size as a full size stone. Soaks for a min or three in the pan and ready to use for a quickie.

The cost reflects that too but I agree that it is a great stone.

 

[RonB]

Objection.

The combo stone concept certainly has some merit with the right stone. Cheap combos are not the right stone. Combo's with a 1/4" coarse side and a 1/2" fine side are not the right stone. The King 1/6K will work, though not particularly well - too slow and soft and too much orange mud going down the drain.

I keep a Gesshin 1/6K stone at work in a third pan. Single stone to keep up with. Each side is same size as a full size stone. Soaks for a min or three in the pan and ready to use for a quickie.

So are you just sayin' that a good combo stone "ain't that bad", or do you have a preference between the combo stone and the two separate stones?

Thanx,
Ron

 

[HRC_64]

That gesshin full size cobo stone is $135

 

[Matus]

Thanx all for the comments. I think I have decided on a Shapton Pro 1000 and a Kitayama 8000 for sharpening my first J-knife, (Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm). :dazed: If anyone objects to this weddin - er - purchase, speak now or forever hold your peace.
:razz:

Ron

That combination should work well. Shapton Pro is on of the fastest stones out there. You will need to see, whether the jump from 1000 to 8000 is not a bit too large, but I have not used the Kitayama myself yet, so I can not comment on that.

 

[K813zra]

That combination should work well. Shapton Pro is on of the fastest stones out there. You will need to see, whether the jump from 1000 to 8000 is not a bit too large, but I have not used the Kitayama myself yet, so I can not comment on that.

Been using those two stones for over a few years now and the jump is fine. It is my go-to now. Adding the 2k between leads to very smooth/refined edges very quickly but I do not like that in a knife meant for food. The 1-8k jump leaves a fair bit of bite in the edge but it is also refined, if that makes sense.

 

[Matus]

Been using those two stones for over a few years now and the jump is fine. It is my go-to now. Adding the 2k between leads to very smooth/refined edges very quickly but I do not like that in a knife meant for food. The 1-8k jump leaves a fair bit of bite in the edge but it is also refined, if that makes sense.

OK, so you make an edge that still has some of the 1k teeth left. It does make sense.

 

[Drosophil]

OK, so you make an edge that still has some of the 1k teeth left. It does make sense.

And without being too grabby. Feels like a polished edge, cuts like a toothy one. Neither carrots, nor tomatoes stand a chance. Steel and HT matter too, that goes without saying. There's a thread about the Kitayama regarding that a bit further down.

 

[ThEoRy]

Thanx all for the comments. I think I have decided on a Shapton Pro 1000 and a Kitayama 8000 for sharpening my first J-knife, (Takamura R2 Gyuto 210mm). :dazed: If anyone objects to this weddin - er - purchase, speak now or forever hold your peace.
:razz:

Ron

I don't like the idea of a Kitiyama for a gyuto final edge. The edge is too slick for general prep as in not toothy enough and won't last as long with that much board contact. It's more for single bevel slicing like yanagiba. Also consider the kitiyama isn't the greatest stone for learning to sharpen on as it takes some finesse to get the most out of it.


5-6k is a great stopping point for gyuto. If you absolutely have to get a combo stone I'll reiterate the sentiment for a jki 1-6k combo. I have one at work and it works great. Plus it's two full size stones so it lasts forever. Consider a strop too. Some guys don't like/use them but I recommend it. Hard felt loaded with a diamond spray is easy to use without messing up your edge and it gives you a crispy final edge that has bite.

 

[K813zra]

I don't like the idea of a Kitiyama for a gyuto final edge. The edge is too slick for general prep as in not toothy enough and won't last as long with that much board contact. It's more for single bevel slicing like yanagiba. Also consider the kitiyama isn't the greatest stone for learning to sharpen on as it takes some finesse to get the most out of it.


5-6k is a great stopping point for gyuto. If you absolutely have to get a combo stone I'll reiterate the sentiment for a jki 1-6k combo. I have one at work and it works great. Plus it's two full size stones so it lasts forever. Consider a strop too. Some guys don't like/use them but I recommend it. Hard felt loaded with a diamond spray is easy to use without messing up your edge and it gives you a crispy final edge that has bite.

I am sure you have more experience than I do but I find that the edge is not too slick and lasts quite a long time following a 1k. Following a higher grit stone, I agree, it is overly polished and does not last with board contact. It is not like one should spend 30 minutes on the stone. How long something lasts in a pro kitchen vs a home kitchen is something I can not comment on though.

 

[JaVa]

The cerax/riga combo stone is the preference choice for a budget option and I see no reason not to go that route. There's so much love floating around for that set up that it is a no brainer. I haven't used one, but would be very confident buying one with all the recommendations it usually gets here.

Though I have several PM steel gyutos so I went a different route with the Sigma select II stones since they are specifically designed for PM steels. There's a 1000/6000 full size combo stone for about 100$ and a small size for about half that.

They're really fast and fun stones with a decent fell too. So much better then the King stones I have and close enough in quality with Gesshin stones IMO.

 

[HRC_64]

Also consider the kitiyama isn't the greatest stone for learning to sharpen on as it takes some finesse to get the most out of it...

I think the OP has a lot of hand-sharpening experience,
he's new to japanese knives and possibly japanese stones.

The kitayama debate is interesting in several ways,
so its worth continuing to discuss.

The people that seem to like this stone are
usually using fast #1000 stones, with a 2 stone progression only
so direct to kitayama and not as a polishing stone

Shapton 1000 is also supposed to be a below-grade stone;
~700 grit equivalent in JIS v2 (scale used by chosera).

Meaning that the progression is probably leaving a below-average
level of polish coming off the SP 1000.

Not sure about the Ai 1000, but given how fast it is,
its possible to be leaving also a pretty toothy lead in to the kitayama.

But the stone seems to have people who like it and some who don't...

 

[K813zra]

I think the OP has a lot of hand-sharpening experience,
he's new to japanese knives and possibly japanese stones.

The kitayama debate is interesting in several ways,
so its worth continuing to discuss.

The people that seem to like this stone are
usually using fast #1000 stones, with a 2 stone progression only
so direct to kitayama and not as a polishing stone

Shapton 1000 is also supposed to be a below-grade stone;
~700 grit equivalent in JIS v2 (scale used by chosera).

Meaning that the progression is probably leaving a below-average
level of polish coming off the SP 1000.

Not sure about the Ai 1000, but given how fast it is,
its possible to be leaving also a pretty toothy lead in to the kitayama.

But the stone seems to have people who like it and some who don't...

AI#1000 reminds me of a Shapton M15. Not worlds different from my Ha No Kuromaku but it has been awhile and the comparison has never been side by side so that is from memory.