Wide bevel sharpening Gesshin Kagekiyo

[GBT-Splint]

Hey ! I don't exactly know what I am expecting with this thread, I will just really appreciate any help or piece of advice.

I just received a Gesshin Kagekiyo 240mm Blue #1 Wa Gyuto that I already worship, it is the most beautiful blade I've ever handled. I've asked myself whether or not I should use it, a question that I answered quickly,of course i'm gonna use it (In my opinion it would be a shame if the blade was to never meet its purpose).

So here I was, in front of my sink ready to give the knife its original sharpening, wondering how to start, on what grit, with what pressure, already thinking about movement to sharpen the tip correctly and keep the shinogi straight. When I realized that despite all the theoretical knowledge and practice that I have with sharpening Jknives, I wasn't so confident all of a sudden. I realize that there are no chance that I will mess up the knife on first sharpening but thing is I really want to do everything right with this one from day 1.
That's the why of this thread, I just thought that it would be stupid not to benefit of the experience of others that know more than me in order to obtain the results that I want.

I have no particular questions to ask but I would like to hear from fellow KKF members that have experience with sharpening (and using) this particular line of knives or other high end wide bevel, the "problems" you might have encountered through time, some tips of any sort, including what I should/shouldn't do to maintain aesthetics just as much as performance of the knife, either for the first sharpening, on a daily basis and on the long run. I am open to discussions about polishing, kasumi and other sharpening related topics.
For now the knife has never touched a stone, it is brand new I just removed the vinyl on it with acetone and put it back in box.

For information, this is my sharpening set up:
atoma 400
naniwa pro 800
JKC double sided 1000/6000 (which was my first stone and is quite messed up)
naniwa pro 3000
Kitayama 8000 I am also about to pull the trigger on both JNS red aoto matukusuyama and 6000 matukusuyama. (any thoughts?)
Couple natural Asano naguras from JNS
Kiita fingerstones
Uchigomori fingerstones

As for sharpening experience, I am not professional sharpener but I've been at it very seriously for the last 6 years (5 years of almost daily reading of KKF) and consider myself fairly consistent in my sharpening.

Hoping this thread will be some fun for everyone, looking forward to reading about everyone experiences

 

[GBT-Splint]

Maybe a bit specific. I thought there were many kagekiyo users

 

[esoo]

I just got a used Kagekiyo kiritsuke gyuto in a trade, so my experience with sharpening it is just planning out what I'm going to do.

As far as I'm aware, everytime you sharpen a wide bevel you should also be touching the wide bevel. My knife appears to have flat bevels, so that would involve laying the bevel flat on the stone and working in that. Two things come of that: first is that you mess the finish on the bevel, and second you have to slowly deal with any high or low spots in the bevel. The shinogi on my knife is not even on one side so I know I've got an issue there with an uneven bevel.

So I'm trying to decide between these two courses
1. Only touch the edge and then have the whole bevel professionally done occasionally
2. Do the whole bevel and then when I can't make it look nice, take it in to have the bevel refinished to look nice.

Tosho is within a reasonable drive so either option is reasonable. As I consider my knives users, likely option 2 is the one I'm going to go with as I suck at putting a nice finish on a knife.

 

[Nemo]

My Kagekiyo (white2) has slightly concave wide bevels. These will gradually become flat as you thin them. In the meantime, you will have a part of the wide bevel which is not being ground. You can use a coarse stone to grind the wide bevel down to flat but this is a huge waste of steel, so I tend to just put up with the slightly different finish to middle of the wide bevel, knowing that the bevels will eventually become flat. It all becomes pretty academic once a patina sets in anyway.

I tend to touch up only the edge on when using a fine stone but thin the wide bevels when I move to a medium stone.

Sometimes the factory edge needs to be removed on new knives, which is probably a job for a medium stone. I don't recall this being necessary for my Kagekiyo but that was a few years ago now. You could get away with at least one medium stone sharpening without touching the wide bevels if you want to go that route.

 

[inferno]

what i usually do with all new knives is: put them on the stones some have almost perfect bevels, some concave, some convex.

i usually start with a 1k to see how much work there is to be done. then 220-500-1k-2k-finisher.

lately i've been getting very good and easily repeatable results on clad blades with the naniwa pro2k, ouka/cerax 3k, cerax 8k and kitayama 4k. the naniwa pro 3k would probably be good too. i dont see why it wouldn't.

there is also the easy way. uchigumori. instant good finish.

then when the sides are finished i sharpen the edge.

 

[GBT-Splint]

I just got a used Kagekiyo kiritsuke gyuto in a trade, so my experience with sharpening it is just planning out what I'm going to do.

As far as I'm aware, everytime you sharpen a wide bevel you should also be touching the wide bevel. My knife appears to have flat bevels, so that would involve laying the bevel flat on the stone and working in that. Two things come of that: first is that you mess the finish on the bevel, and second you have to slowly deal with any high or low spots in the bevel. The shinogi on my knife is not even on one side so I know I've got an issue there with an uneven bevel.

So I'm trying to decide between these two courses
1. Only touch the edge and then have the whole bevel professionally done occasionally
2. Do the whole bevel and then when I can't make it look nice, take it in to have the bevel refinished to look nice.

Tosho is within a reasonable drive so either option is reasonable. As I consider my knives users, likely option 2 is the one I'm going to go with as I suck at putting a nice finish on a knife.

So if I understand correctly I need to thin the knife every time I sharpen the edge to maintain the geometry/shinogi of the knife over time as one would do on a single bevel knife. Then when sharpening the edge would you have the bevel flat on the stone as for a single bevel knife and only pressure on the edge ?

Or maybe you can simply just sharpen the edge the way I said above and thin(which in this case means to work on the shinogi) every once in a while as one would do on a double bevel knife.. Both your courses imply sending the knife to a pro, do you think it is this difficult to maintain a nice aesthetic on those knives ?

You mention that your knife has a flat bevel which i guess means it is neither convex nor concave right ?

 

[GBT-Splint]

I tend to touch up only the edge on when using a fine stone but thin the wide bevels when I move to a medium stone.

Sometimes the factory edge needs to be removed on new knives, which is probably a job for a medium stone. I don't recall this being necessary for my Kagekiyo but that was a few years ago now. You could get away with at least one medium stone sharpening without touching the wide bevels if you want to go that route.

When you say thin the wide bevel do you mean working on the shinogi ?
If so wouldn't you work it with a fine stone? as my knife if brand new (and as such I believe it shouldn't need any thinning) I was thinking about going for a medium and then fine stone for the new edge and only very little work on fine stone for the shinogi in order not to damage it too much (actually I hope this will do the trick for a long period of time)

 

[esoo]

This is my first true wide bevel, so take anything I say from the perspective.

It is my understanding that you're supposed to do the wide bevel each sharpening, then the edge. This helps keep the wide bevel geometry. It will affect the finish of the bevel.

You can just sharpen the edge and then do the bevel every so often. I'm not sure how ultimately it affects the geometry.

For finishing, I've tried it a few times and it hasn't turned out the way that I've wanted which is why I mention that I would likely end up sending it to Tosho. I'd likely try with my limited stones, get frustrated and take it to them.

 

[GBT-Splint]

what i usually do with all new knives is: put them on the stones some have almost perfect bevels, some concave, some convex.

i usually start with a 1k to see how much work there is to be done. then 220-500-1k-2k-finisher.

lately i've been getting very good and easily repeatable results on clad blades with the naniwa pro2k, ouka/cerax 3k, cerax 8k and kitayama 4k. the naniwa pro 3k would probably be good too. i dont see why it wouldn't.

there is also the easy way. uchigumori. instant good finish.

then when the sides are finished i sharpen the edge.

I guess I will eventually end up doing that
By "sides" do you mean the hira ? if so do you often work on it and why ? (is it just for aesthetics or does is affects performance too ?)
My guess would be that after a long period of time working only on the bevel, the hira would end up needing some thinning too.

as you mention uchigomori, it seems that the finish/polishing of the bevel has been done parallel to the edge, would you advise I keep it that way ?
the finish on the hira is side ways.

 

[Nemo]

When you say thin the wide bevel do you mean working on the shinogi ?
If so wouldn't you work it with a fine stone? as my knife if brand new (and as such I believe it shouldn't need any thinning) I was thinking about going for a medium and then fine stone for the new edge and only very little work on fine stone for the shinogi in order not to damage it too much (actually I hope this will do the trick for a long period of time)

I think that what you refer to as 'fixing the shinogi' is the same thing as thinning on a knife with a flat or slightly cocave wide bevel. You lay the wide bevel flat on the stones and grind away until you are almost at the edge (or even until you JUST get a burr (a "zero grind "). hard knives of simple steels CAN be used with a zero grind but the edge can be a bit fragile depending on how you use it. I tend to put an edge bevel or even a micro bevel on if I do this.

As you sharpen the edge several times, the edge bevel will climb up into thicker and thicker parts of the knife and your knife will become thicker and thicker behind the edge. It will take quite a few fine stone touch ups to do this but will happen quicker on a medium stone.

There are 2 main ways to deal with this:

1) Restorative thinning: Wait until the knife cuts like a meat cleaver then spend an hour or two on a coarse stone to thin/ fix the geometry then refine the polish with finer stones. Hoping that your coarse stone technique doesn't move the shinogi too far from the original pattern. Or you can send the knife to someone else to do this (make sure they know whatt hey are doing, thoough- many knife sharpeners wouldn't have a clue how to care for a knife like this).

2) Maintennence thinning: Every time you need to move down to a medium stone (when touch ups on a fine stone don't raise a burr within a half dozen or dozen strokes), spend a couple of minutes grinding the wide bevel with the medium stone until the edge bevel is very small (or indeed, you have a zero grind). I usually refine the edge bevel with a finer stone, especially one that gives a contrast between core steel and claddimg. Note that anything over 4-5 K on the wide bevel can actually worsen food release. I find a 2-4K finish gives the best food release on many knives.

 

[inferno]

i dont touch the hira until it starts rusting or something else happens to it that requires refinishing.

i always do the bevel parallel to the edge, is much faster and easier.

 

[GBT-Splint]

This is my first true wide bevel, so take anything I say from the perspective.

It is my understanding that you're supposed to do the wide bevel each sharpening, then the edge. This helps keep the wide bevel geometry. It will affect the finish of the bevel.

You can just sharpen the edge and then do the bevel every so often. I'm not sure how ultimately it affects the geometry.

For finishing, I've tried it a few times and it hasn't turned out the way that I've wanted which is why I mention that I would likely end up sending it to Tosho. I'd likely try with my limited stones, get frustrated and take it to them.

First true wide bevel here too.
Why do you think it hasn't turned out the way that you wanted ? from what I hear, uneven shinogi on wide bevel often come from over/uneven pressure when sharpening. Do you think that might be it? also what grit of stone would you use for shinogi work?
As I said above I personally would use a fine stone for that in order to not cut too much metal. (again I don't really know what I'm doing. only theoretical knowledge on these bevels)

 

[GBT-Splint]

I thinkt hat what you refer to as 'fixing the shinogi' is the same thing as thinning on a knife with a flat or slightly cocave wide bevel. You lay the wide bevel flat on the stones and grind away until you are almost at the edge (or even until you JUST get a burr (a "zero grind "). hard knives of simple steels CAN be used with a zero grind but the edge can be a bit fragile depending on how you use it. I tend to put an edge bevel or even a micro bevel on if I do this.

As you sharpen the edgedge several times, the edge bevel will climb up into thicker and thicker parts of the knife and your knife will become thicker and thicker behind the edge. It will take quite a few fine stone touch ups to do this but will happen quicker on a medium stone.

There are 2 main ways to deal with this:

1) Restorative thinning: Wait until the knife cuts like a meat cleaver then spend an hour or two on a coarse stone to thin/ fix the geometry then refine the polish with finer stones. Hoping that your coarse stone technique doesn't move the shinogi too far from the original pattern. Or you can send the knife to someone else to do this (make sure they know whatt hey are doing, thoough- many knife sharpeners wouldn't have a clue how to care for a knife like this).

2) Maintennence thinning: Every time you need to move down to a medium stone (when touch ups on a fine stone don't raise a burr within a half dozen or dozen strokes), spend a couple of minutes grinding the wide bevel with the medium stone until the edge bevel is very small (or indeed, you have a zero grind). I usually refine the edge bevel with afiner stone, especially one that gives a contrast between core steel and claddimg. Note that anything over 4-5 K on the wide bevel can actually worsen food release. I find a 2-4K finish gives the best food release on many knives.

Maintennence thinning looks like the right way to me and I plan to do that. I guess I will just put the knife on stones and see what happens, this has been helpful thanks.
I will see if the knife prefers to be used with a micro bevel after some use, I try to not systematically use those.

 

[Nemo]

Maintennence thinning looks like the right way to me and I plan to do that. I guess I will just put the knife on stones and see what happens, this has been helpful thanks.
I will see if the knife prefers to be used with a micro bevel after some use, I try to not systematically use those.

The way I look at it, you have 2 main options for edge geometry:

1) Put a regular edge bevel (10-15 dps) on the knife. When you need to drop down to a medium stone, thin the wide bevel, but not quite to a zero grind (doesn't really matter if you raise a burr but any grinding beyond that is just wasting steel And risks affecting the left-right balance of the knife) then put your regular edge bevel on it. you can refime the finish of the wide bevel with a finer stone if you wish (do this before the final sharpening).

2) Thin the wide bevel untill you (only just) raise a burr (zero grind). Refine the finish on the wide bevel to the desired grit (2-5k for kitchen use). Add a microbevel (not essential but most 10-15 degree inclusive edges won't hold up in most kitchen use). Or just use the Kippington deburring method to start off with. Touch up the microbevel on a fine stome as required. When this takes more than a few strokes, thin the wide bevel to a zero grind again.

Method one gives a slightly more acute edge angle. Method two makes the knife thinner behind the edge. Both work well with most wide bevels IME.

 

[GBT-Splint]

The way I look at it, you have 2 main options for edge geometry:

1) Put a regular edge bevel (10-15 dps) on the knife. When you need to drop down to a medium stone, thin the wide bevel, but not quite to a zero grind (doesn't really matter if you raise a burr but any grinding beyond that is just wasting steel And risks affecting the left-right balance of the knife) then put your regular edge bevel on it. you can refime the finish of the wide bevel with a finer stone if you wish (do this before the final sharpening).

2) Thin the wide bevel untill you (only just) raise a burr (zero grind). Refine the finish on the wide bevel to the desired grit (2-5k for kitchen use). Add a microbevel (not essential but most 10-15 degree inclusive edges won't hold up in most kitchen use). Or just use the Kippington deburring method to start off with. Touch up the microbevel on a fine stome as required. When this takes more than a few strokes, thin the wide bevel to a zero grind again.

Method one gives a slightly more acute edge angle. Method two mskes the knife thinner behind the edge. Both work well with most wide bevels IME.

I'm not sure that there's an option better than the other, I quite like the second one that you stated and I am very glad you mentioned the Kippington deburring method as I had never heard of it. It took me quite a bit of time to assimilate as I only ever focused on deburring little by little on each stone that I use from grit to grit by honing, transversal strokes, cork and the like. I will definitely give it a go.
Do you mainly use this method ? and do you use it for any type of steel/bevel ?

thanks for sharing expertise, my understanding of sharpening got a lot better in little time.

 

[Robert Lavacca]

Honestly man, listen to Nemo. After years of trying different ways, I just do maintenance thinning MOST of the time. Taking a brand new knife and just flattening it is kind of silly. I wouldn’t recommend trying that anyways for the first time with a kagekiyo. Get something a little less expensive if you want to try that. Nothing wrong with thinning a little bit at a time. If they are concave, they will eventually become flat. Flattening bevels for the first time can be frustrating depending on the knife. You could also make a mistake that you might regret. I know I did. If you just do a little every time you sharpen, your concentrating more and not taking the chance of eventually rushing for various reasons. If you want, I have a tanaka yo ginsanko 240 with concave wide bevels. I’ve been doing maintenance thinning and the bevels still are not fully flat, almost. If you want to see what that finish would look like on yours, I can send you some photos. Remember, this knife is stainless and yours is carbon/iron so once your patina forms, it won’t be as noticeable. You can get an idea though. Plus you are prolonging the life of the knife and not wasting away steel. Not all knives are meant to just be automatically flattened anyways. Convexity is also something you could eventually learn as well. Sounds like with edges, you’re in decent shape. The naniwa pro 800 is still one of favorite stones. Definitely more of a 1500 though, would be a good initial edge stone. Sometimes for the first sharpening, i’ll even start on a chosera 3k. Anyways, try the maintenance thinning. You can always take more metal off, can’t put it back on.

 

[Nemo]

I'm not sure that there's an option better than the other, I quite like the second one that you stated and I am very glad you mentioned the Kippington deburring method as I had never heard of it. It took me quite a bit of time to assimilate as I only ever focused on deburring little by little on each stone that I use from grit to grit by honing, transversal strokes, cork and the like. I will definitely give it a go.
Do you mainly use this method ? and do you use it for any type of steel/bevel ?

thanks for sharing expertise, my understanding of sharpening got a lot better in little time.

I was surprised at how well the KDM worked. I was lucky enough to have @Kippington walk me through it in person (on a coarse stone, to boot) and my skepticism disappeared.

The upside is that it is definitely quicker and easier than the alternative, especially on complex steels which are often a pain to deburr. It essentially leaves a microbevel on the knife, which is also ideal for many complex steels.

The downside is that the microbevel limits the acuity of the very edge, which may affect ultimate sharpness slightly.

In kitchen knife use, the thinness behind the edge affects performance more than the final edge angle does (razors are different). If you want to show how clever you are by push cutting paper towel or hanging hairs, an acute edge angle probably helps. But not on most food.

Personally, I now tend to use the KDM on complex steels and regular deburring on carbon steels (unless I'm planning a microbevel). I could use the KDM on all of my knives.

My alternative deburring routine consists of:
1) BURR CONTROL (abrading the burr): On the coarsest stone that I will use I start with hard pressure until I get a burr. Then I repeat this with firm (but less) pressure, then again with light pressure, then again with very light pressure (weight of the knife Only). See Pete Nowlan's (@Sailor) video on pressure control which can be found on Knifeplanet.net's sharpening school (I think I first saw it at the end of the JKI sharpening series IIRC). You may feel bits of broken burr on the stone during the lighter pressure parts of the technique.

2) DEBURRING: (On complex steels I often use a few feather light edge leading strokes on a clean stone, although this is controvesial and it introduces an opportunity to round the edge if you do it wrong). I then use a very light longitudinal stroke on the burr side then drag the knife gently through cork or hard felt.

3) SUBSEQUENT FINER STONES are just done with very light pressure, then deburring.

4) REPEAT YOUR LAST FEW STEPS. Thanks go to @Dave Martell for this one. I think what is happening here is that you are cleaning up the edge. If I am only doing a touch up on a fine stone, I repeat the last 2 stages of pressure on that stone, then deburring. if I used a coarser stone, I repeat the last 2 levels of pressure on the medium stone, then the fine stone.

Hope this helps.

 

[GBT-Splint]

Honestly man, listen to Nemo. After years of trying different ways, I just do maintenance thinning MOST of the time. Taking a brand new knife and just flattening it is kind of silly. I wouldn’t recommend trying that anyways for the first time with a kagekiyo. Get something a little less expensive if you want to try that. Nothing wrong with thinning a little bit at a time. If they are concave, they will eventually become flat. Flattening bevels for the first time can be frustrating depending on the knife. You could also make a mistake that you might regret. I know I did. If you just do a little every time you sharpen, your concentrating more and not taking the chance of eventually rushing for various reasons. If you want, I have a tanaka yo ginsanko 240 with concave wide bevels. I’ve been doing maintenance thinning and the bevels still are not fully flat, almost. If you want to see what that finish would look like on yours, I can send you some photos. Remember, this knife is stainless and yours is carbon/iron so once your patina forms, it won’t be as noticeable. You can get an idea though. Plus you are prolonging the life of the knife and not wasting away steel. Not all knives are meant to just be automatically flattened anyways. Convexity is also something you could eventually learn as well. Sounds like with edges, you’re in decent shape. The naniwa pro 800 is still one of favorite stones. Definitely more of a 1500 though, would be a good initial edge stone. Sometimes for the first sharpening, i’ll even start on a chosera 3k. Anyways, try the maintenance thinning. You can always take more metal off, can’t put it back on.

I never wanted to flatten the bevel right away, I just opened the discussion to it as I wanted to get more informations about the way to do it, which I did.
But hey thanks for the advice warning I'm gonna be real careful this bevel situation I've got a feeling that I only scrape the surface with this topic even tho Nemo's posts are major source of amazing information that I already find quiet deep.

Sure I'd like to see some pictures of your tanaka! did you manage to keep the shinogi straight trough time and sharpening ?
I will probably do the first sharpening on naniwa pro 3000 I think that's a good start I really like this stone.

Anyways, try the maintenance thinning. You can always take more metal off, can’t put it back on.

Sure thing I'll definitely go for maintenance thinning.

Honestly man, listen to Nemo

I intend to do that

 

[GBT-Splint]

I was surprised at how well the KDM worked. I was lucky enough to have @Kippington walk me through it in person (on a coarse stone, to boot) and my skepticism disappeared.

The upside is that it is definitely quicker and easier than the alternative, especially on complex steels which are often a pain to deburr. It essentially leaves a microbevel on the knife, which is also ideal for many complex steels.

The downside is that the microbevel limits the acuity of the very edge, which may affect ultimate sharpness slightly.

In kitchen knife use, the thinness behind the edge affects performance more than the final edge angle does (razors are different). If you want to show how clever you are by push cutting paper towel, an acute edge angle probably helps. But not on most food.

Personally, I now tend to use the KDM on complex steels and regular deburring on carbon steels (unless I'm planning a microbevel). I could use the KDM on all of my knives.

My alternative deburring routine consists of:
1) BURR CONTROL (abrading the burr): On the coarsest stone that I will use I start with hard pressure until I get a burr. Then I repeat this with firm (but less) pressure, then again with light pressure, then again with very light pressure (weight of the knife Only). See Pete Nowlan's (@Sailor) video on pressure control which can be found on Knifeplanet.net's sharpening school (I think I first saw it at the end of the JKI sharpening series IIRC). You may feel bits of broken burr on the stone during the lighter pressure parts of the technique.

2) DEBURRING: (On complex steels I often use a few feather light edge leading strokes on a clean stone, although this is controvesial and it inroduces an opportunity to round the edge if you do it wrong). I then use a very light longitudinal stroke ont he burr side then drag the knife through cork or hard felt.

3) SUBSEQUENT FINER STONES are just done with very light pressure, then deburring.

4) REPEAT YOUR LAST FEW STEPS. Thanks go to @Dave Martell for this one. I think what is happening here is that you are cleaning up the edge. If I am only doing a touch up on afine stone, I repeat the last 2 stages of pressure on that stone, then deburring. if I used a coarser stone, I repeat the last 2 levels of pressure on the medium stone, then the fine stone.

Hope this helps.

Taking notes. That's just a lot more than what I was expecting with this thread, those are priceless informations and very precise descriptions of various steps sometime quite difficult to assimilate by just looking at a computer screen. It gives me plenty to dig deeper when I will master this.
Helps a LOT. Thank you I bet many will be happy to read this thread.

 

[Nemo]

Taking notes. That's just a lot more than what I was expecting with this thread, those are priceless informations and very precise descriptions of various steps sometime quite difficult to assimilate by just looking at a computer screen. It gives me plenty to dig deeper when I will master this.
Helps a LOT. Thank you I bet many will be happy to read this thread.

Just be aware that this is only one method of deburring. It's just my adaptation of the techniques of the giants on whose shoulders I stand. I've tried to use these techniques in a combination that makes sense to my understanding of what is going on with the burr during sharpening.

There are many other techniques that likely work just as well, if not better.

The important thing to realise is that once you can reliably form an even burr and an even edge angle, you will need to learn to minimise and remove the burr before you can attain the next level of sharpness. Another way of saying this is that a properly deburred coarse stone edge will be much sharper than a poorly deburred fine stone edge.

 

[Robert Lavacca]

I never wanted to flatten the bevel right away, I just opened the discussion to it as I wanted to get more informations about the way to do it, which I did.
But hey thanks for the advice warning I'm gonna be real careful this bevel situation I've got a feeling that I only scrape the surface with this topic even tho Nemo's posts are major source of amazing information that I already find quiet deep.

Sure I'd like to see some pictures of your tanaka! did you manage to keep the shinogi straight trough time and sharpening ?
I will probably do the first sharpening on naniwa pro 3000 I think that's a good start I really like this stone.


Sure thing I'll definitely go for maintenance thinning.



I intend to do that

Definitely man. You’re absolutely right. I love threads like these. The tanaka is more of a faux (think that’s the word) wide bevel. At least it seems that way. The shinogi was already wavy when I bought it and barely pronounced. Nothing like your awesome kagekiyo. I could of been more patient and made it look a whole lot nicer but I bought the knife to use as kind of an everyday beater. As long as I’m doing the maintenance thinning on it and it keeps cutting like it always has, i’m happy. More expensive knives, I put a lot more work in. Obviously when the bevel is finally flat, it might cut a little differently. Can’t see it changing a whole lot though. Food separation isn’t a strong point for that tanaka anyways. I’ll shoot you over some pics just so you can get an idea of what the finish might look like somewhat on yours until the bevel flattens.
I think the one thing I struggled with most and even struggle with to this day, is burr removal. The kippington method is a little intimidating for me but i’ll have to try it. I usually just do real light edge leading strokes on a clean stone. Once in a while I’ll strop on clean felt or use cork. I think I was rounding edges for sometime before I got better at it. I’m still learning solid burr removal techniques today. There is a lot to take in when it comes to sharpening! Haha

 

[madmotts]

@Robert Lavacca can you post some images for the rest of us lurkers?

 

[stereo.pete]

Question for you folks who know a lot more about sharpening than I do. Have any of you tried using a flat jig to hold sand paper and instead of moving the knife back and forth on the stone, clamping the blade and thinning / polishing the large flats with sand paper and a flat jig? I use this technique when hand sanding knives and it works incredibly well. It also allows you to keep crisp lines on bevels. In my limited experience, I find the level of control using this method is far more precise than moving the entire blade over a stone, which A: can dish, and B: one small movement of my hands and I could roll into the edge of the bevel on the shindig. I'm hoping this makes sense.

Any thoughts to this method, has anyone tried it?

Here's a video that showcases what I'm trying to describe, skip to 10:43. Obviously this guy made a really fancy one, I use something way more basic.

 

[inferno]

pete, i kinda motorized it and it works with the right papers. its really messy to do indoors though. you just put the flat thing you want sanded on it and it does all the work.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/i-bought-a-bosch-sander.46255/

 

[Robert Lavacca]

@Robert Lavacca can you post some images for the rest of us lurkers?

For sure. I never posted them period. I’ll post some tomorrow when i’m home.

 

[Robert Lavacca]

Keep in mind, this is my beater. So I don’t go crazy trying to make it look nice in anyway. At the same time, you can see my scratches from the stone and the OG finish of the concave wide bevel from tanaka. Last time I sharpened this, I was in a rush at work, but you can get an idea of how it looks. Also, this is ginsanko, so there won’t be much contrast but the dark spots on my scratches come from the mud of the stone obviously.

 

[madmotts]

Um that was fun... My Kagekiyo was slightly concave and for whatever reason I wanted to flatten it out. Bad move. The shinogi line is now gone and the finish looks like sh!@ but its a near zero grind.

One of the interesting sharpening techniques that seemed to work well was to lay the knife on the blade road but put only pressure near the edge NOT on the middle or near the shoulder. This raised the knife a hint but not shave the shinogi line. I wish I had done only that from the beginning.

im super bummed but it’s a learning experience. I guess I couldn’t help myself once i started grinding away.

 

[Teryeki]

Um that was fun... My Kagekiyo was slightly concave and for whatever reason I wanted to flatten it out. Bad move. The shinogi line is now gone and the finish looks like sh!@ but its a near zero grind.

One of the interesting sharpening techniques that seemed to work well was to lay the knife on the blade road but put only pressure near the edge NOT on the middle or near the shoulder. This raised the knife a hint but not shave the shinogi line. I wish I had done only that from the beginning.

im super bummed but it’s a learning experience. I guess I couldn’t help myself once i started grinding away.

I have a couple Gesshin Kagekiyos and for this reason exactly, I was too scared to thin them myself. I’ve since had extensive conversations with Jon and some others and have put significant work into a couple of other knives (with their own pitfalls and subsequent learning experiences) to get some experience before ruining the kagekiyo.

Some of the advice I’ve gotten lines up with your experience working the edge first because by the time you work the shinogi up, not only is it near gone, but because of the concavity, the edge is now too thin. I’m starting to work it slowly when I sharpen, but I have no plan to do any major work on them and just continue to work slowly and make the most of their lives. Also fingerstones for the finish while they’re still concave.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

I’ve had a couple kagekiyo. They are slightly hollow ground. That’s what helps make them very thin behind the edge.

 

[madmotts]

I’ve had a couple kagekiyo. They are slightly hollow ground. That’s what helps make them very thin behind the edge.

yeah... it was one of those