Yaxell Dragon Patina

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Bromo33333

Bromo33333

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I will post a picture when I get home, the steel they use (BD1n) seems to patina, but not rust at all. The 8 inch one is developing a nice slight patina with use.

Interesting development. Any others out there with experience similar?
 
Just checked the composition on zkives.com and could only agree with Zvi expecting a high corrosion resistance. But I've seen some stain on VG-10 as well. Looking forward to seeing your pictures and some metallurgist explaining what happened!
 
Wonder why these seem to be virtually impossible to get in EU, they are certainly interesting...
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
Wonder why these seem to be virtually impossible to get in EU, they are certainly interesting...
Click to expand...

No idea why, but it's marketed by "Stratus Cutlery" which is an US company.

It seems to have the heft and ruggedness of a German knife (though a little thinner and lighter) and has a wickedly sharp edge. A little bit of a PITA to sharpen (63 Rockwell) and as I said the 8" blade which is the one I use the most, is seeming to develop a light patina which is weird given the corrosion resistance that was advertised and the nearly 17% Chromium content. I tend to be fanatical about drying my knives.
 
Bromo33333 said:
the 8" blade which is the one I use the most, is seeming to develop a light patina which is weird given the corrosion resistance that was advertised and the nearly 17% Chromium content. I tend to be fanatical about drying my knives.
Click to expand...

If it has lots of carbon, then a good bit of the chromium gets tied up in carbides, and lowers the stain resistance compared to what you may expect just from the raw Cr %. ZDP189 is also like that, semi-stainless despite a high % of Cr.
 
Benuser said:
269g with the 10", 2,91mm spine, metal butt, high tip: sounds like specially made for the German market.
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THe belly on the 8" and the upturned tip on the 8 and 10" is has that "rocking" profile, it's a little thinner and sharper feeling than the German knives I have - and the balance, especially on the 8" is right where you grab it so it has easy maneuverability. It really feels like a hybrid between the two.
 
richard said:
If it has lots of carbon, then a good bit of the chromium gets tied up in carbides, and lowers the stain resistance compared to what you may expect just from the raw Cr %. ZDP189 is also like that, semi-stainless despite a high % of Cr.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Richard.
 
richard said:
If it has lots of carbon, then a good bit of the chromium gets tied up in carbides, and lowers the stain resistance compared to what you may expect just from the raw Cr %. ZDP189 is also like that, semi-stainless despite a high % of Cr.
Click to expand...

That would make sense. It's not a lot of patina, but it's happening. Thanks!
 
foody518 said:
Yeah... But we're talking less C and more Cr than VG10
As opposed to ZDP-189 which has almost triple the Carbon content
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Hmm you are right. I am not really knowledgeable in metallurgy beyond bits I have picked up here and there, and I have no familiarity with BD1N. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.
 
Here is a picture of the patina for reference

ImageUploadedByKitchen Knife Forum1492566204.681379.jpg
 
It depends also on the heat treat how much chromium is left for corrosion resistance, you can get different results out the same steel. But I don't know details.
 
I remember some fragments of stainless HT. The amount and size of chromium carbides changes with the quenching temperature. This can make the difference between semi stainless and stainless, or workhorse and laser. Both ways have their use.

High speed tool steels are annealed around 500C. This converts austenite to martensite and builds new carbides. The hardness increases, toughness is reduced. The chromium transferred to carbides reduces corrosion resistance. I'd like to know if this process is used in knife making.
 
It certainly isn't even close to rusting, but given they are processing it to 63 Rockwell ...

It gives the knife character, and so long as it doesn't rust (I tend to dry religiously) I think it's cool. But given how they are really trying to sell it on rust resistance, this is puzzling ...
 
Is this curve linear? I mean, carbon steel seems to resist the bad kind of corrosion better the harder it gets ... shouldn't this effect work to compensate the chromium depletion once a certain hardness is reached? Or will it just make sure you get patina vs nasty rust?
 
Bromo33333 said:
It certainly isn't even close to rusting, but given they are processing it to 63 Rockwell ...

It gives the knife character, and so long as it doesn't rust (I tend to dry religiously) I think it's cool. But given how they are really trying to sell it on rust resistance, this is puzzling ...
Click to expand...
Usually these companies know their marketing. Is there a difference between stainless and rust resistance in English?
 
natto said:
Usually these companies know their marketing. Is there a difference between stainless and rust resistance in English?
Click to expand...

"But given how they are really trying to sell it on rust resistance," --> should have been "But given how they are really trying to sell it on corrosion resistance,"

Like I said, I don't mind, but it's surprising that it's getting a patina is all. I didn't spend a whole lot of time pouring over marking spiel or anything .
 
The first Google hits mentioned stainless only with the end cap and rivets. This is the description from their catalogue:
http://www.yaxell.co.jp/global/products/Catalog_Ambiente.pdf
Blade
The blades of the DRAGON knives are an
extremely robust one-piece construction,
made from 3mm thick Nitrogen-Enriched
American steel (CTS-BD1N) by Carpenter
Technology Corp., a worldwide leader in
Specialty Alloys. The steel is hardened to
63HRC for extreme sharpness and edge
retention.
 
How ironic that a company that even puts global in their site structure neither sells Global knives nor makes all of them globally available...
 
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