Yet another wa handle tang slot thread

[ian]

Guys, I just don’t understand how you can drill a tight fitting tang slot in a mono wa handle. Do you need the knife pretty thick at the neck? Right now, I want to drill and then broach, but I need a really big drill bit (bigger in diameter than the tang width) if I’m going to fit the broach into the hole. I try drilling lots of holes in a line, but the bit always travels, and I invariably end up with a couple deep holes, separated by some wood that I have an impossible time getting rid of. I tried using a brad point bit this time, but still the bit traveled. I was trying to do it with a hand drill… maybe if I did it on the press it would be better controlled, but idk… handles barely fit vertically on my press, and especially with a long bit it seems so easy for it to travel. With the instructions people post online it seems like people just drill a bunch of perfect holes in a line and voila there’s a slot, but that seems like impossible magic to me.

 

[tostadas]

What final dimensions are you trying to get for the hole? And what are the dimensions of your broach?

 

[ian]

Broach is 2mm x 6mm ish. This time I’d like to be able to create a 3mm wide slot, but I have trouble with anything less than 6mm for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[M1k3]

Drill small holes and use a narrow round file to to connect the holes?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Drill small holes and use a narrow round file to to connect the holes?

Trouble is you need the large hole beneath the surface for the tang to slide into.

My understanding is folks drill the large hole and then use a slotted dowel that comes all the way out to the end. I may be wrong on that.

 

[ian]

Ya, I understand the slotted dowel method, which I’ve used with multi-part handles where you can hide the dowel using the ferrule. But I have a real hard time drilling out mono wa handles as above. Drilling the ferrules for multipart hidden dowel handles is also not completely trivial for me, but it’s a lot easier.

 

[ian]

Drill small holes and use a narrow round file to to connect the holes?

Ya maybe I do need to find a super narrow file somewhere… it’s prob gonna be flexy if it’s under 3mm, though, and it’s such a pain to file vs broach. Hmm or maybe there are super narrow jigsaw blades?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Ya, I understand the slotted dowel method, which I’ve used with multi-part handles where you can hide the dowel using the ferrule. But I have a real hard time drilling out mono wa handles as above. Drilling the ferrules for multipart hidden dowel handles is also not completely trivial for me, but it’s a lot easier.

I honestly thought the dowel showed on mono handles.

@MSicardCutlery just did some I think.

 

[ian]

I honestly thought the dowel showed on mono handles.

@MSicardCutlery just did some I think.

Sometimes you have an exposed dowel, sometimes you hide it, sometimes you have no dowel. I prefer the look when it’s hidden or absent, personally.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Sometimes you have an exposed dowel, sometimes you hide it, sometimes you have no dowel. I prefer the look when it’s hidden or absent, personally.

Yeah, I for sure get that. I shoulda' known you'd already messed with this stuff.

I'll just sit back and watch cuz now I'm perplexed and intrigued.

 

[tostadas]

Don't do slotted dowel for a mono. It's ugly.

If you cut one piece into 2 and glue them back together, then that's no longer a mono in book, since you introduce a joint.

A few ways I have used:

Drill a bunch of holes. But this is not that easy, especially with a hand drill,where you have enough trouble drilling a single hole that deep and keeping it straight. Also, filing that deep is tough to get the leverage needed to widen the deepest parts.

Drill the 6mm hole, then widen the top and bottom of it, leaving you with a key hole kinda like most stock wa handles. If you're cool with that, great. If you're picky like me, that's maybe still not good enough. You can use epoxy and sawdust from the same piece to fill the excess hole before your final finish. Then sand it all smooth. It works especially well on woods with nonuniform grain pattern since it blends in. I've done that on some of my most recent burl handles in the "sticks" thread. However, don't do this if you plan on torching the handle, since the epoxy will burn faster than the wood, and it won't look as clean at the filled part.

If you're using a soft wood, you can also do a burn in method. I personally have yet to try this.

 

[M1k3]

@HSC /// Knives has done quite a few mono handles. 1 of mine in cut in half, made the slot, then glued back together. The other one was solid. Maybe he has some advice?

 

[MSicardCutlery]

You're fighting an uphill battle trying to drill straight holes if you don't use the press. IIRC...in machining there are charts that specify the amount you should deepen a hole before backing out to limit deviation, something like 2x drill diameter on the first cut, back out, then 1x drill diameter for X number of cuts, then half, or less. It's been a while since I looked into that stuff though.

IMO, if you want just a tight fitting slot in a mono-handle with no oversized hole or dowel, get a bottle of MAP gas, pilot in a hole the thickness of the tang to depth, and burn it in. Or make up a broach you can mount in your drill press and use the same way, it'll go faster with the extra pressure. This method may not work depending on your wood though. Lower density hardwoods, walnut, poplar, even oak should work. Maple most likely will not, not without cracking at least, and anything oily will probably gum up too much (ebony, snakewood).

Otherwise, just go for a 2 piece handle, drill an oversized hole in the bottom piece, chain drill a line of holes in the top piece, (at high rpm) tilt the piece bach and fourth one hole at a time to join them, and use a needle file to square it up.

I quit using dowels a while ago. They're something of an extraneous step that only makes things harder to line up in the end. A good plug of hot glue seems to do great all on its own, plus it makes handles easier to transfer.

That said, I don't know your experience level or how well equipped you are, so I apologize for any suggestions I've made that may be contingent on tools you don't have, or are things you've already thought through or done on other handle.

 

[ian]

You're fighting an uphill battle trying to drill straight holes if you don't use the press. IIRC...in machining there are charts that specify the amount you should deepen a hole before backing out to limit deviation, something like 2x drill diameter on the first cut, back out, then 1x drill diameter for X number of cuts, then half, or less. It's been a while since I looked into that stuff though.

IMO, if you want just a tight fitting slot in a mono-handle with no oversized hole or dowel, get a bottle of MAP gas, pilot in a hole the thickness of the tang to depth, and burn it in. Or make up a broach you can mount in your drill press and use the same way, it'll go faster with the extra pressure. This method may not work depending on your wood though. Lower density hardwoods, walnut, poplar, even oak should work. Maple most likely will not, not without cracking at least, and anything oily will probably gum up too much (ebony, snakewood).

Otherwise, just go for a 2 piece handle, drill an oversized hole in the bottom piece, chain drill a line of holes in the top piece, (at high rpm) tilt the piece bach and fourth one hole at a time to join them, and use a needle file to square it up.

I quit using dowels a while ago. They're something of an extraneous step that only makes things harder to line up in the end. A good plug of hot glue seems to do great all on its own, plus it makes handles easier to transfer.

That said, I don't know your experience level or how well equipped you are, so I apologize for any suggestions I've made that may be contingent on tools you don't have, or are things you've already thought through or done on other handle.

This is all great! Thanks. Gives me some things to try, and makes me feel like I’m not just incompetent.

Might have to use a method that doesn’t require drilling straight holes, as my press only has 2” of travel anyway.

 

[cotedupy]

This is all great! Thanks. Gives me some things to try, and makes me feel like I’m not just incompetent.

Might have to use a method that doesn’t require drilling straight holes, as my press only has 2” of travel anyway.

Yeah, as others have said - it's extremely difficult. You need very, very sharp, fresh drill bits, both so the initial holes are straight, and also so you can move it easily to connect them.

Also - it's almost impossible to do this method well on very hard, or stabilized woods. And obviously helps quite a lot if you have a tang you don't mind modding a bit to fit the inevitably slightly wonky, or not-quite-right, hole you've made.

I can count the number of really good, tight-fitting mono tang slots I've drilled on the fingers of one hand.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Would one of these help with the initial tang slot?

https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-561-Multipurpose-Cutting-Bit/dp/B00004UDIB
Not long enough for the whole thing but maybe help keep things clean at the end?

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

This is all great! Thanks. Gives me some things to try, and makes me feel like I’m not just incompetent.

Might have to use a method that doesn’t require drilling straight holes, as my press only has 2” of travel anyway.

I suck when it comes to snug fit as most of the tang slots I make are oversized. Yet I don't really see that as a problem as long as you mix wood dust with epoxy when mounting handle — that conceal sloppy tang. At least that's what I like to think

 

[esoo]

I have two mono handles (which are probably my favorite handles) and both have been done exceptionally well.

I haven't made handle yet, but this is what I want so watching this thread with interest.

I also wonder if the neck is slightly larger than than tang - that way when you attach the handle the neck covers the hole.

Shihan:

Raquin:

 

[ian]

I also wonder if the neck is slightly larger than than tang - that way when you attach the handle the neck covers the hole.

Ya it's common to have a machi, in which case that's true at least at the part of the neck on the spine, and the opposite part. I don't think I've seen knives where there's a step sort of on the side of the tang in addition to the machi, but maybe there are. That would only help me in my current situation if the neck of the knife was suuuuper thick, though, like >6mm thick, since my problem seems to be that I can't make slits that are <6mm wide easily.

Kinda suspect the Shihan and Raquin are burn-ins? Kinda looks like the Shihan handle is burned a bit near the tang. Can't tell with the Raquin, for obvious reasons, but seems likely?

 

[ian]

Would one of these help with the initial tang slot?

https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-561-Multipurpose-Cutting-Bit/dp/B00004UDIB
Not long enough for the whole thing but maybe help keep things clean at the end?

Hmm, idk! I have a set of small rasps that help me keep things clean at the end, and they work ok, but ya, maybe something like this would be good. I do find myself sort of milling with a drill bit (cringe) when I get super frustrated at how it's going. I guess if you're gonna do that, something like this is the right approach. But maybe I just need a really different approach.

Maybe this thing would be good for cutting the slot in a ferrule, at least.

 

[ian]

I can count the number of really good, tight-fitting mono tang slots I've drilled on the fingers of one hand.

"I've only tried 4 times, but they all turned out perfect. Haha, sucks to be you, Ian!" -cotedupy.

 

[esoo]

Ya it's common to have a machi, in which case that's true at least at the part of the neck on the spine, and the opposite part. I don't think I've seen knives where there's a step sort of on the side of the tang in addition to the machi, but maybe there are. That would only help me in my current situation if the neck of the knife was suuuuper thick, though, like >6mm thick, since my problem seems to be that I can't make slits that are <6mm wide easily.

Kinda suspect the Shihan and Raquin are burn-ins? Kinda looks like the Shihan handle is burned a bit near the tang. Can't tell with the Raquin, for obvious reasons, but seems likely?

I've tried drilling straight, so I can't even manage that at this point. But the makers have the advantage that they can make their tangs the same size as their holes.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Hmm, idk! I have a set of small rasps that help me keep things clean at the end, and they work ok, but ya, maybe something like this would be good. I do find myself sort of milling with a drill bit (cringe) when I get super frustrated at how it's going. I guess if you're gonna do that, something like this is the right approach. But maybe I just need a really different approach.

Maybe this thing would be good for cutting the slot in a ferrule, at least.

I picked one up a while back. I think it was @JoBone who recommended it. Only played with it once. On higher speeds it can be pretty aggressive so if you do grab one, practice with it first to get a feel for things.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Also, if you don't already have them, Brad point drill bits can really help get a hole started straight.

 

[ian]

Also, if you don't already have them, Brad point drill bits can really help get a hole started straight.

Ya they do make it a bit easier.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

@ian look up knifehandle37 on IG. He has a post up right now with two mono handles and shows the tang slot. At least on these examples, he's clearly drilling a larger center hole.

I know you're trying to get it snug but just thought I'd share.

 

[ian]

Those do look ok!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Those do look ok!

I think so too. I wouldn't scoff at those slots at all.

 

[KenjiF]

I’ve done a bunch of monos lately w a hand drill and this is what has worked for me…

Making sure the top of the wood is flat and square drill l the hole in a vice using a drill block. I made a broach saw out of jigsaw blades (scrolling or hardwood blades) because I couldn’t find anything that was small enough. Just grind the back edge off enough so you can fit it in the hole.

I have only been drilling one hole as the tangs come to a point and the saw naturally leaves that angle if you saw up from the center.

Then I use a file to widen the hole till it’s just big enough to fit the tang. I haven’t needed epoxy as I get a tight fit and just use glue stick shavings and heat the tang just so water doesn’t get in the tang hole…

Here are some handles (burned oak) and the tools I used…

 

[ian]

Oh, nice! Grinding down the back of a jigsaw blade seems like a great idea.