Favorite nakiris?

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perneto

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So I have quite the stable of gyutos at this point but have yet to try a nakiri. What are your favorites, and what do you like about them? Stainless vs. carbon isn't an issue. 180mm is probably the length I'd go with. Budget isn't too much of a concern; neither is waiting time.
 
I have used only 2 nakiris so far - Kanehiro 165 AS (a loaner from a friend) and a Toyama 180. Both are great. The AS is a great steel for a nakiri (holds up well to the 'chopping abuse'), the Toyama is more up my alley with slightly bigger size and higher weight. I shall get a Moritaka 180 AS in about a month if everything goes well - I do not really need it, but a friend wil be going directly to Moritaka, so he will pick up one for me.

I am still getting to know the Toyama, but I like it a lot. Very even grind (no low spots). After some experimenting I am getting a great finish on the cladding with a fine rust eraser from JKI - I can easily blend it with stone finish (up to Uchigumori) closer to the cutting edge.

I was VERY tempted by the Ikeda from Bernal, but the price was more than I was ready to pay (in particular after shipping and taxes). I would have got it (180mm, blue #1, damascus cladding) if the budget were not limited. It looks fantastic.

And of course you will hear a lot about 180 Watanabe - it seems that those are really good. I nearly got one myself, but could just not resist the Toyama.
 
A love/hate affair in case you are considering it: The Sakon AS migaki. Rather thin OOTB and is going closer to laser territory each time I take a bit of shoulders off when sharpening - and there is something like an orderly kasumi finish starting on the first half inch of the blade by now - still somewhat irregular. The edge has quite a "tuning fork" quality to it. And there is the issue: No shinogi so no perfect looking easy thinning. And as for food release... it is best to lock non-used vegetables away firmly so they don't get stuck to the blade from a meter away. This can be used to advantage: you can store a portion of aromatics on the blade in its entirety and just drop it in the pan with a (plastic!) bench scraper, and you instantly notice any accordeoning... The price for that is a risk of wedging like stiction. And another issue: The edge is probably 1/2 HRC too hard and brittle for board use, and not truly strop friendly.
 
We all know that Watanabe nakiri is great, but can anyone gives an insight on 180mm Kochi stainless clad nakiri?

I have researched the whole forum but no good reviews to be found.
 
Probably not the most popular knife around these parts but I have a Masakage Yuki Nakiri and I love it. Needs a little love behind the edge before it finds its stride but boy does she go after that.
 
SHIGEFUSA 165MM KU

IMG_2599.jpgIMG_2598.jpg
 
I have to admit I would love to hear more on Shigefusa KU nakiris as I have read a rather conflicting opinions on these. In general my impression is that it is a bit too thick/heavy - 165 is supposed to weight close to 200g.

V1P - Even without trying the Kochi nakiris I am 95% sure that these will fall through the food without noticing it. That is what the 180 Kochi santoku does. Your best option to findout more is probably just asking Jon.
 
Thanks, Matus. I agree with your opinion, I just wonder which one I would like more without buying both.

I like my knives tall, hefty and thin edge. For the kochi, weight is around 180g, i wonder if the Watanabe is heavier. I guess the heavier one will get picked [emoji16].
 
Matus said:
I have used only 2 nakiris so far - Kanehiro 165 AS (a loaner from a friend) and a Toyama 180. Both are great. The AS is a great steel for a nakiri (holds up well to the 'chopping abuse'), the Toyama is more up my alley with slightly bigger size and higher weight. I shall get a Moritaka 180 AS in about a month if everything goes well - I do not really need it, but a friend wil be going directly to Moritaka, so he will pick up one for me.

I am still getting to know the Toyama, but I like it a lot. Very even grind (no low spots). After some experimenting I am getting a great finish on the cladding with a fine rust eraser from JKI - I can easily blend it with stone finish (up to Uchigumori) closer to the cutting edge.

I was VERY tempted by the Ikeda from Bernal, but the price was more than I was ready to pay (in particular after shipping and taxes). I would have got it (180mm, blue #1, damascus cladding) if the budget were not limited. It looks fantastic.

And of course you will hear a lot about 180 Watanabe - it seems that those are really good. I nearly got one myself, but could just not resist the Toyama.
Click to expand...


The Ikeda Suminagashi Blue #1 looks really really thin behind the edge: http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspee...uminigashi-180mm-nakiri-aogami-1-7534816.html
Did it look different in person? That seems like it may be too brittle.
 
V1P said:
Thanks, Matus. I agree with your opinion, I just wonder which one I would like more without buying both.

I like my knives tall, hefty and thin edge. For the kochi, weight is around 180g, i wonder if the Watanabe is heavier. I guess the heavier one will get picked [emoji16].
Click to expand...

The Kochi.... I would go for the regular one, not the stainless clad. The stainless is a little thicker (at least the Gyuto is).

Ask Shinichi about the weight, he'll tell you. I think the Watanabe pro Nakiri is by far the most beloved Nakiri in this forum. I'd even go as far as saying that you won't find another knife type where so many people pick the same knife as their favorite .... especially not among Gyutos.
 
alterwisser said:
The Kochi.... I would go for the regular one, not the stainless clad. The stainless is a little thicker (at least the Gyuto is).

Ask Shinichi about the weight, he'll tell you. I think the Watanabe pro Nakiri is by far the most beloved Nakiri in this forum. I'd even go as far as saying that you won't find another knife type where so many people pick the same knife as their favorite .... especially not among Gyutos.
Click to expand...

I did ask that question recently - here is the answer from Shinichi:



Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 165mm blade
  • Total length: 305mm
  • Width: 52mm
  • Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
  • weight:175g

Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 180mm blade
  • Total length: 315mm
  • Width: 56mm
  • Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
  • Weight: 200g
 
Hmm...i like the heft from 200g. I believe that Kochi is a cutter as well, it's just that no one has tried one and tell the tale.
 
Nakiri are push cutting machines. For this reason I prefer heavier workhorse style Nakiri that can take power through the edge (e.g. Watanabe, Toyama or Kato). Thinner lazer type nakiri are fun too, heavier workhorse is just more my thing.

My personal favourite Nakiri is a Toyama 210 although 180 is more popular and more nimble.
 
I asked about 180mm stainless clad nakiris in another thread from a few days ago. No one seems to know much about the Kochi. Or the Kurosaki AS stainless clad that I am looking at. I plan to pick up both the Kochi and Kurosaki and perhaps even the Watanabe Pro SS clad. See which I like best and sell the other(s).

Right now I own a Yuki 165. Best of the nearly dozen 165mm nakiris I have tried. Only a somewhat larger Fujiwara performed better.

The Yuki sharpens easier than any of my knives and is a fantastic chopper. It will microchip on some ingredients such as sweet potatoes if you aren't very careful, but it doesn't hurt performance much and the chips come out easily. Being so tall for a 165 - mine is 59mm high - means it can be sharpened for years with no loss of performance.

Only thing I wish for is greater length. Hence my new search. I almost bought a Kurosaki AS kurouchi 165mm instead of the Yuki. A little shorter but a bit more authority in cutting. I suspect the longer and taller 180 will be much more to my liking. Kurosaki also makes thinner 180mm nakiris in R2 and VG10. Both are lookers, too.

Based on the specs, the Kuro R2 180mm is the lightest at around 170 grams. Kuro VG10 180mm is 180 grams. Kuro AS 180mm is 185 grams. Kochi Kurouchi 180mm is 190 grams. Kochi Stainless clad kurouchi 180mm is 191 grams. And the Watanabe is around 200 grams.
 
Matus said:
I did ask that question recently - here is the answer from Shinichi:



Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 165mm blade
  • Total length: 305mm
  • Width: 52mm
  • Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
  • weight:175g

Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 180mm blade
  • Total length: 315mm
  • Width: 56mm
  • Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
  • Weight: 200g
Click to expand...

I would only add that My Watanabe 180mm is noticeably taller than that at 62mm, 56mm is what he has on the website but mine is definitely taller. Don't have the weight though.
 
Just starting to play with nakiri myself I'm but really enjoying the toyama...the kato is great as well just wish it was a little taller. Obviously I also prefer weight and height and still getting used to a different cutting style.
In order of preference...

Toyama 210
288 g
64.5 mm tall
4.3 - 2.3 taper

Kato ku 180
229 g
53.25 mm tall
6.1 - 1.7 taper

Shigefusa ku 165
186 g
52.75 mm tall
7.5 - 1.4 mm taper

Shigefusa ku 180
218 g
52.5 mm tall
6.9 - 1.5 taper
 
Lumo, is the Toyama weight perfectly fine for you? Personally, I prefer my knives to weigh no more than 215 grams, though I have a few outstanding performers that are somewhat heavier.

I am leaning toward SS clad. The idea of frequently wiping down a very tall, 180mm nakiri just seems ... daunting.
 
Matus said:
I have to admit I would love to hear more on Shigefusa KU nakiris as I have read a rather conflicting opinions on these. In general my impression is that it is a bit too thick/heavy - 165 is supposed to weight close to 200g.

V1P - Even without trying the Kochi nakiris I am 95% sure that these will fall through the food without noticing it. That is what the 180 Kochi santoku does. Your best option to findout more is probably just asking Jon.
Click to expand...

The shigefusa nakiri is 186g, have it now a little longer than 3 weeks ,so far I love everything about it, super fine edge and amazing finish, that is if you like the rustic look of kurouchi.
 
jbart65 said:
Lumo, is the Toyama weight perfectly fine for you? Personally, I prefer my knives to weigh no more than 215 grams, though I have a few outstanding performers that are somewhat heavier.

I am leaning toward SS clad. The idea of frequently wiping down a very tall, 180mm nakiri just seems ... daunting.
Click to expand...

Nope, my toyama is definitely a keeper. The weight doesn't bother me at all, especially considering the height and length, it all works for me...but again if the kato was a little taller...!
I hear you on the ss clad, especially on a busy line. There's a Harner on the BST. I have no experience with them but I hear good things.
 
A bit of a tangent but still somewhat related...is there significant difference between a bunka and a nakiri other than the bunka having a tip? I.e. Can the nakiri do something significantly better than a bunka can?
 
richard said:
A bit of a tangent but still somewhat related...is there significant difference between a bunka and a nakiri other than the bunka having a tip? I.e. Can the nakiri do something significantly better than a bunka can?
Click to expand...
Depends on the knife. If a bunkabocho has the same basic dimensions as a nakiri (not necessarily so), it loses a bit of tip weight and the tip will be more exposed and fragile. If you are resourceful, you can figure out cutting techniques that take advantage of the shapes. Pick the shapes that suit you, and don't think there is orthodoxy to it.
 
In my eyes, there are two schools for Nakiri from the ones I sampled: the heavy convex one (toyoma, watanabe, ...), and super thin ones (wakui, kurosaki/masakage). The in between (like TF) brings nothing to my eye.
I would advocate for the thin ones, especially compared to the other recommandations that have been made on this thread. Because one uses always a nakiri with a up down movement because of the shape (i.e. I mean no rocking and no lateral pressure on the blade), and because it is going to be used only on vegetables, it is for me the blade that should be super thin from the edge to at least 1cm above. You will get some weight because of the height: nothing to worry. you can get a convex and food release properties for far above the cutting edge: there is plenty of room on the blade to make that.
Moreover, because it is straight and short, it is a blade that very easy to maintain extremely thin.
Naturaly, this is my 0.02$.
 
Zetieum: I agree with your reasoning completely!
 
This could quickly turn into a laser vs workhorse debate... Both are good for different reasons...
 
fatboylim said:
This could quickly turn into a laser vs workhorse debate... Both are good for different reasons...
Click to expand...

Indeed. But I think because NAkiri have a particular shape and a specific use, this debate could be very relevant here. Moreover, for Nakiri what matter is not the spine region, it is only the bottom up to 1/3, because those blades a very high. So it is not "laser" but thin being thin behind and above the edge that matters.
I am not a guy that swear only on lasers. Actually, I own only one laser. But, concerning nakiri, I am all the way for the thinner the better.
 
@zetieum this would make a case for zero grinding at the shinogi angle, then putting a microbevel....
 
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