Kitayama 8k FTW
6k-8k Stone Preferences
- Thread starter Donobag
- Start date
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SG6K and Kitayama 8K. The kit 8K is more aggressive than SG6K an edge IMO, so SG6K is pretty much the finest edge I still like.
If you ask me, Morihei 4K is the very best finishing stone there ever was, therefore I'll seldom use the Kit or SG6K anymore. When I want aggressive fine, it's Ouka or SG4K.
That's for good steels.
High Carbon Steels? Anywhere I see THAT claim, I'd finish either on SG500, Cerax 1K, or probably the closest sidewalk.
If you ask me, Morihei 4K is the very best finishing stone there ever was, therefore I'll seldom use the Kit or SG6K anymore. When I want aggressive fine, it's Ouka or SG4K.
That's for good steels.
High Carbon Steels? Anywhere I see THAT claim, I'd finish either on SG500, Cerax 1K, or probably the closest sidewalk.
I find Kita very toothy in edge behavior, kind similar to Gesshin blue speckle 6K, but the polish is bit more mirror than 6K, great stuff. I have a Ichimonji 4K and I’m convinced it is the same manufacturer as Kitayama, very similar in feeling
*Fond memories of going Ouka + Kit stropping washing over...
*Remembering how fussy things once were - contempt washing over...
Jump from anywhere logical with stuff that's worth it, Morihei 4K meets my ends. I'm boring, but incredibly enough, I'm happy as pearls cast before swine.
@Steampunk wrote a great post in March I think still holds up. (I wish he’d come back and write more again, he had great posts)
I’m usually less concerned about the brand, per se, than fitting an edge to a task.
- I care a bit more about finer grits, more on that later
If I want a toothy edge that lasts a long time on tomatoes, peppers, etc, then I won’t sharpen above 4k, and a clean 2k edge can be magic. If you get really fussy about a 1k edge, it’ll feel and perform a lot finer than the grit suggests, but keep tearing through produce for days. My personal secret sauce is a boring, cheap, brown King 1k, with a good deal of focus on deburring. After that, flatten a cereal box on top the stone, bend it over the edges, and strop a few times to really clean the furry burr off. That edge will impress. I listened to @M1k3 a while back and I’m really thankful for it (he likes a mid-coarse venev iirc, so it’s less about the brand and more about the type of cut you want). For a draw cut where those teeth come into play. The other great thing is this grit range will basically work on any steel, even softer western factory knives. One of the best razor sharpeners in the game sets his bevels on a King 1k (Alex is a bit of an outlier, but it shows it can be done).
On the other hand, if you want a satisfying “falls through food, push cutting and glassy carrots” type of edge, then don’t stop at 6k; 6k is a total compromise. Not really enough teeth for me, and not refined enough to fall through food. For that, 8k is a better place to be. In this case, I’d say brand starts to matter. From a couple years in the razor game, I can say with some confidence, after rubbing a lot of steel across my cheeks, that not all 8k are made equal. The Shapton series works really well together, but it’s 8k is closer to a 5k from most other brands in terms of reducing apex radius, which is what you’re trying for at this grit range. (check out this chart to see how Shapton compares to JIS standards). A shapton 12k is closer to a JIS 8k. A norton 8k is closer to a sandy turd, but that’s a different story. On the other hand, the Naniwa snow white 8k is noticeably finer than the “average” 8k. Even a hair finer than that is the Naniwa Fuji 8k, but it’s plasticy to sharpen on, and needs to be refreshed with a fine diamond plate relatively often to keep cutting. But it polishes amazingly, and is great for razors. The Snow White is faster cutting, nearly as fine, feels better. I got sold an Ohishi 10k by a proprietor that I don’t really like. It takes the Fuji 8k edge backwards. But you really only notice this type of difference if you’ve got the fixed sharpening angle a razor provides, then rub the edge on your face.
Once you start getting to this point, it makes a difference how long you spend maximizing the polish you get from stone to stone, working up from 1-8k. If you just “get a burr” moving stone to stone, it’s not necessarily the gold standard to know you’ve maxed out your 3k stone, for instance. If you haven’t really changed the entire scratch pattern from the 1k, then you left money on the table that won’t really be worked out at finer grits. They’ll help polish the bevel, but you won’t get the most out of refining the apex itself. You don’t have to double your time, but consider spending a little longer when you think you’re done. This is especially true for most naturals, which generally have a lower concentration of abrasives than synthetic stones, so cut a bit slower. Refresh the surface along the way as well. By the end, I bet you’ll like the edge better, and it will last longer at that level than you’re used to.
Also, this level of refinement is pretty much wasted when you get into the higher alloyed tool steels and quite a lot of stainless. You’ll get a sharp, but smooth edge that collapses pretty quickly. A hard, simple carbon steel will go downhill more predictably, and touch up easier. If a high-alloy steel edge collapses, you’ll be going back to 1-3k to reset the apex, but you could coax the low-alloy steel along on 5-8k stones for quite a while longer.
Ramble over.
I’m usually less concerned about the brand, per se, than fitting an edge to a task.
- I care a bit more about finer grits, more on that later
If I want a toothy edge that lasts a long time on tomatoes, peppers, etc, then I won’t sharpen above 4k, and a clean 2k edge can be magic. If you get really fussy about a 1k edge, it’ll feel and perform a lot finer than the grit suggests, but keep tearing through produce for days. My personal secret sauce is a boring, cheap, brown King 1k, with a good deal of focus on deburring. After that, flatten a cereal box on top the stone, bend it over the edges, and strop a few times to really clean the furry burr off. That edge will impress. I listened to @M1k3 a while back and I’m really thankful for it (he likes a mid-coarse venev iirc, so it’s less about the brand and more about the type of cut you want). For a draw cut where those teeth come into play. The other great thing is this grit range will basically work on any steel, even softer western factory knives. One of the best razor sharpeners in the game sets his bevels on a King 1k (Alex is a bit of an outlier, but it shows it can be done).
On the other hand, if you want a satisfying “falls through food, push cutting and glassy carrots” type of edge, then don’t stop at 6k; 6k is a total compromise. Not really enough teeth for me, and not refined enough to fall through food. For that, 8k is a better place to be. In this case, I’d say brand starts to matter. From a couple years in the razor game, I can say with some confidence, after rubbing a lot of steel across my cheeks, that not all 8k are made equal. The Shapton series works really well together, but it’s 8k is closer to a 5k from most other brands in terms of reducing apex radius, which is what you’re trying for at this grit range. (check out this chart to see how Shapton compares to JIS standards). A shapton 12k is closer to a JIS 8k. A norton 8k is closer to a sandy turd, but that’s a different story. On the other hand, the Naniwa snow white 8k is noticeably finer than the “average” 8k. Even a hair finer than that is the Naniwa Fuji 8k, but it’s plasticy to sharpen on, and needs to be refreshed with a fine diamond plate relatively often to keep cutting. But it polishes amazingly, and is great for razors. The Snow White is faster cutting, nearly as fine, feels better. I got sold an Ohishi 10k by a proprietor that I don’t really like. It takes the Fuji 8k edge backwards. But you really only notice this type of difference if you’ve got the fixed sharpening angle a razor provides, then rub the edge on your face.
Once you start getting to this point, it makes a difference how long you spend maximizing the polish you get from stone to stone, working up from 1-8k. If you just “get a burr” moving stone to stone, it’s not necessarily the gold standard to know you’ve maxed out your 3k stone, for instance. If you haven’t really changed the entire scratch pattern from the 1k, then you left money on the table that won’t really be worked out at finer grits. They’ll help polish the bevel, but you won’t get the most out of refining the apex itself. You don’t have to double your time, but consider spending a little longer when you think you’re done. This is especially true for most naturals, which generally have a lower concentration of abrasives than synthetic stones, so cut a bit slower. Refresh the surface along the way as well. By the end, I bet you’ll like the edge better, and it will last longer at that level than you’re used to.
Also, this level of refinement is pretty much wasted when you get into the higher alloyed tool steels and quite a lot of stainless. You’ll get a sharp, but smooth edge that collapses pretty quickly. A hard, simple carbon steel will go downhill more predictably, and touch up easier. If a high-alloy steel edge collapses, you’ll be going back to 1-3k to reset the apex, but you could coax the low-alloy steel along on 5-8k stones for quite a while longer.
Ramble over.
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