Advice on Ceramic Hones

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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I have an idahone. Wakes up my soft steel. For a j-knife, takes a very deft hand to both keep pressure light and the angle consistent.
I use leading and trailing strokes. My results are so-so, but a knife nut that drops in from time to time...gets much better results.
Ergo, more skill in using one than most people think...and I don't think whatever skill I have on stones translates. If so,
I would be getting better results.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
Since there is more than a bit of interest here, I thought I'd offer an opportunity for the community to try it.

I've created a pass around sign up thread here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...g-life-Sintered-Ruby-Hone?p=434734#post434734
Click to expand...

Excellent Rick!

I'm ineligible for the pass around - not a supporter (yet!) and not on the right continent (ever?). However, I'll be keeping abreast of the comments. Might even post one once mine arrives - if that's OK.
 
bennyprofane said:
Perhaps, I'm not getting it right but I read that it removes like a 500 stone and also when you swipe the blade over it, it leaves a silvery line on the stick. A coarse stone always removes more than a fine stone, no?
Click to expand...

That 500 is probably according to the European standard FEPA, more or less equivalent to JIS 1200.
 
I think he was speaking of JIS values because he also said it leaves a finish like a 2000 and FEPA 2000 would be a bit much. I also think it's definitely faster than the grey sharpmaker rods and I think they are 700 or 800.
 
I've tried the Sieger for cutting a single-sided micro-bevel on a very soft carbon. No good idea, but it was a bit of an emergency case: just willing to show someone the working of such a bevel. Much slower than a Chosera 2k.
 
Well folks, it's been almost three weeks and I remain Sieger-less.

Placed an order for the 20cm one but after a week or so I got an email from fishpond.com.au saying the supplier hadn't responded so they cancelled the order and a refund was processed. Thinking this was a stock problem with the shorter version, I ordered the more expensive 28cm version (always wanted this one). Today, another email from fishpond.com.au with the same story. Grrrr!

So... is there any out there that knows of a supplier of the Sieger long life sintered ruby hone, I'd love to know their name. Otherwise I might be forced to choose the Mac Black and that was definitely a distant 2nd choice. Or perhaps the knife gods are telling me something... no hones for you (& your knives).
Hmmm :scratchhead:
 
You can try Ebay. There are several for sale with most sellers being in the United States. Some sellers ship internationally. You can email sellers that state the ship to some countries to find out if they will ship to you and how much it will cost. Ebay gives you some protection to get a refund if you get a bad seller.
 
Thanks for your suggestions Nife. eBay proved rather expensive but I finally got somewhere after contacting a friend in Germany. They found the manufacturer's website (http://www.boker.de/) but unfortunately they didn't ship to Australia. They did give however me a wholesaler in Australia, L&M Retail Pty Ltd.

So... for any Australian or New Zealand forum members looking for a Sieger, go to http://www.lmretail.com.au/. The website is seriously threadbare but there is a contact phone number there and they can supply the Sieger at a reasonable price. The 20cm is AUD$93 and the 28cm is AUD$140 - both prices include delivery.
 
OK - took an extra month but my Sieger arrived today. Love it! but with qualifications.

I'll probably never use it on my better blades - yes, I have many that aren't. I've tried it on a couple of Wusties, VG10s and a couple of supermarket knives. The results have been very pleasing. Certainly not the same as a quick stone touch up but if you need the knife you're using to perform better quickly, it's up to the task. Of course, one can always rotate to another knife. Surprisingly, in my initial testing, it was gentle edge leading strokes that seemed to produce a better result. I had assumed that edge trailing stokes would have been the way to go. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Will I ever use it on my Japanese knives or customs? - almost definitely not. But with lesser knives, it will make you smile... in seconds. Thank you all for your advice. Rick - sorry to hear the passaround didn't eventuate - it would have been good to hear everyone's comments.
 
panda said:
why not use it on jknives?
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Frankly, I'm too scared to try. I'm not a professional so my needs aren't as immediate. I have other knives I can turn to or I can take my time with a stone. There is no pressure on me to get back a serviceable edge on a particular knife. In truth, I almost never let a knife deteriorate that much before hitting at least a 3k stone. Over the years I've used a Zwilling round steel, an F. Dick oval steel, an Eze-Lap diamond hone (savage on steel) and a cheap Ikea ceramic hone. I was relatively OK using them on German knives, Globals and garden variety SS knives. Too many forum members warn against using them on J-knives so I'm taking that advice on board. Perhaps it's just simple economics - I don't want to risk screwing up a more expensive knife when I know a few minutes on stones will achieve the result I'm after... and last longer too. Perhaps one day I'll try a couple of edge trailing strokes on a Tanaka beater but I'm not ready yet. Still, glad overall that I got the Sieger - better than anything else hand held.

I still recall your advice: "LIGHT (almost no) pressure... " in post #27. Even more cautious going forward.
 
Don't be scared just try it. If the edge gets beat up from it you can just resharpen it on stones. No big deal.

I really want to get one but only of it's an upgrade over mac black.
 
I've been using P Tiger's Sieger for a couple three weeks now. I've found it to nicely refresh an edge during a prep session. (I measure tomatoes and peppers by the case and onions by the bag, no such thing as ea. here.) I've used it on my Watanabe Nakiri, a Tanaka G and even my $750.00 Gengetsu:cool2:

I've not compared it to my DMT rod. Like many I was reluctant to ever use the "steel" on JKnives. I'll do that this week and be done.

I would prefer the edge from stropping on a stone but in reality the valid comparison is to stop on a steel or not strop at all.

@Panda - if you asked Rick nicely, maybe it could travel east next week instead of back north.
 
daveb said:
I've been using P Tiger's Sieger for a couple three weeks now. I've found it to nicely refresh an edge during a prep session. (I measure tomatoes and peppers by the case and onions by the bag, no such thing as ea. here.) I've used it on my Watanabe Nakiri, a Tanaka G and even my $750.00 Gengetsu:cool2:

I've not compared it to my DMT rod. Like many I was reluctant to ever use the "steel" on JKnives. I'll do that this week and be done.

I would prefer the edge from stropping on a stone but in reality the valid comparison is to stop on a steel or not strop at all.

@Panda - if you asked Rick nicely, maybe it could travel east next week instead of back north.
Click to expand...

Panda - Drop me a PM if you're interested.

Rick
 
panda said:
Don't be scared just try it. If the edge gets beat up from it you can just resharpen it on stones. No big deal.

I really want to get one but only of it's an upgrade over mac black.
Click to expand...
Well, I've tried the Sieger out on a variety of knives then cautiously followed your advice and very gently approached a few harder Japanese knives. The results? Quite good actually - not the same as a touch up session on a stone followed by a strop but a noticeable, albeit subtle improvement in cutting performance. Again I found that edge-leading strokes produced the better result but I still finished with edge-trailing - around 3 leading followed by one trailing.

On a side note, using the Sieger quickly showed up any minor irregularities that existed on the edge - more readily than a test paper cut would show. A finger test would not show it at all unless it involved blood. Not that it fixed the problem, just showed me a problem existed. So... off to the stones!

Can't comment on the Mac Black as I've never used one.
 
so i got to try the sieger thanks to p-cola (thanks rick) and i came away impressed. it works fast and very aggressive (my guess is a toothy 1k edge), i will go so far as to say it actually cuts a new edge if used carefully. like marek stated above, this one provides feedback on the condition of your edge while you are using it which was a bit unexpected since the mac offers no feedback due to dampening (it absorbs all the feedback instead of reflecting it back through the edge)

i am still keeping the mac rod to use for my gyutos because it leaves a more refined edge, but sieger for everything else (parer/petty/suji/beater)
 
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