Anyone having experience with Sakai Takayuki Aogami (blue) Super hammered series?

[X_dKKF]

First post here, if anything wrong please let me know. Thanks in advance.

Tempting on Sakai Takayuki Aogami (blue) Super hammered 200 bunka and 210 gyuto.

Available on CKTG (my apology for no link here since there's a rule of no link in the first 5-6 posts), please search "takayuki AS" on CKTG

Never tried carbon steel knives so currently choosing my first one. Did some research and found 180USD for a cladded AS around 200mm sounds a bit too cheap? Katou Yoshimi AS might be comparably proper knives but are gonna between 270-300.

Would like to know if there's any experience with them, or your thoughts on this series. Any input will be appreciated.

 

[tim huang]

well, the wa handle Yoshimi AS is not that laser (compared to their western handle product). so I choose the western handle

overall a really really good knife. And its very easy to maintain since it's stainless clad. don't know about Takayuki AS.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

No input on the knife but just a head's up... No matter what you're post count gets to, the forum will never let you post a link to CKTG. There's a long and not so nice history.

Everything else is okay though.

Lots of options out there in your price range too.

 

[X_dKKF]

No input on the knife but just a head's up... No matter what you're post count gets to, the forum will never let you post a link to CKTG. There's a long and not so nice history.

Everything else is okay though.

Lots of options out there in your price range too.

Oh thanks for explaining.

For options, any further choice on knives with AS, wa handle, gyuto/bunka 180-210? (under 200)

I saw there are some tosa-ichi AS comparably priced on ebay, however the shipping + tax make the price less competitive in anyway.

Also, any downside on these takayuki? I know these might be produced as OEM by some local blacksmiths in Sakai, does their QC kinda bad in general? (like someone here said "I would recommend Shun rather than takayuki in this price range for QC problems")

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You'll find a ton of vendors to browse in this thread:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/who-do-you-buy-from.52523/
No experience with those knives but the OEM knives I have had (Tsunehisa and Akifusa) have been very well done.

 

[tim huang]

i was going to say Yu Kurosaki AS Fujin series. the price should be a bit higher than Yoshimi kato's (i suppose) and its kinda rare. or if you don't care about fit and finish maybe a Moritaka AS gyuto

 

[EShin]

Oh thanks for explaining.

For options, any further choice on knives with AS, wa handle, gyuto/bunka 180-210? (under 200)

I saw there are some tosa-ichi AS comparably priced on ebay, however the shipping + tax make the price less competitive in anyway.

Also, any downside on these takayuki? I know these might be produced as OEM by some local blacksmiths in Sakai, does their QC kinda bad in general? (like someone here said "I would recommend Shun rather than takayuki in this price range for QC problems")

OEM but like many other Sakai knives produced in Tosa, probably by Hokiyama, a company that also produces “Tsunehisa” and other brands. The consensus seems to be that they offer a lot for the money. No experience with their AS lines, but only heard good things.

 

[X_dKKF]

i was going to say Yu Kurosaki AS Fujin series. the price should be a bit higher than Yoshimi kato's (i suppose) and its kinda rare. or if you don't care about fit and finish maybe a Moritaka AS gyuto

In a great aware of Kurosaki's knives however as you said price point is a bit too high as an intro carbon steel knife...Also just looked up somewhere selling kurosaki and found most of them are out of stock unfortunately lol.

Moritaka AS sounds great. Much appreciated your input.

 

[X_dKKF]

OEM but like many other Sakai knives produced in Tosa, probably by Hokiyama, a company that also produces “Tsunehisa” and other brands. The consensus seems to be that they offer a lot for the money. No experience with their AS lines, but only heard good things.

Oh OEM sakai knives made in Tosa???? Jeez I know there are cheap AS cladded knives selling on ebay made by hokiyama called Tosa-ichi (土佐一), but never known sakai companies outsourcing their knives there...

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Are you open to iron cladding and does it have to be aogami core?

 

[X_dKKF]

Are you open to iron cladding and does it have to be aogami core?

The reason for AS is I heard they have the optimum hardness and corrosion resistance within carbon steel range. Since I just start learning sharpening. I am afraid of taking a softer one would ended up destroying the knife... (currently practicing sharpening on my cheap hitohira SK5 chinese cai dao. Darn deburring is hard

So ehhh, I think I am open to other type of carbon steel, if there is an artisanal knife on a great deal with similar specs, I would also jump on them. Just gonna hurryup and learn shapening.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I don't know what your "corrosion tolerance" is or will come to be so please understand that up front, but maybe an iron clad Munetoshi would get you started. Possibly the 165 petty to start?

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-sanjo/
This is an iron clad knife which means the entire thing is susceptible to rust. But with the same type of practices I use on stainless clad AS, I've had no issues. It's also shirogami that yes, technically is a little more vulnerable than AS but I personally don't find the differences all that much. And shirogami is super nice to sharpen, a great steel to start out with.

Keep in mind, being stateside, your price will exclude the VAT.

Now, I'm in no way trying to talk you out of AS or stainless cladding. Like I mentioned before, Tsunehisa is a well done, affordable option. Just giving another direction for consideration.

 

[EShin]

Oh OEM sakai knives made in Tosa???? Jeez I know there are cheap AS cladded knives selling on ebay made by hokiyama called Tosa-ichi (土佐一), but never known sakai companies outsourcing their knives there...

It can be misleading to sell knives that were made elsewhere as "Sakai", but the background is that many knifemakers in Japan have been trained in Sakai but then went to other areas such as Tosa, so it's not like they would be outsourcing the knives to a cheap Chinese factory or so. Also, Sakai Takayuki has to make sure that the knives are up to their standards. And as @HumbleHomeCook has said, many users here have had very good experiences with the knives sold as Tsunehisa etc. I don't think you will be disappointed with the Sakai Takayuki.

The reason for AS is I heard they have the optimum hardness and corrosion resistance within carbon steel range. Since I just start learning sharpening. I am afraid of taking a softer one would ended up destroying the knife... (currently practicing sharpening on my cheap hitohira SK5 chinese cai dao. Darn deburring is hard

So ehhh, I think I am open to other type of carbon steel, if there is an artisanal knife on a great deal with similar specs, I would also jump on them. Just gonna hurryup and learn shapening.

Harder steels are generally more difficult to sharpen properly, especially deburring (other than that, it just takes much more time and you have less feedback). For learning to sharpen, there's worse steels than AS but I'd recommend a knife made from white 2 (shirogami 2), there's many affordable options around so that you can get it as a good learning knife and can then step up if you feel that you want something different. It could also turn out to be good for many many years as it's generally a really great steel. In any case, you will probably mess up a bit as all of us do, but if you remember to check the knife every few seconds to see if you sharpen the part you want to and flatten the stones every few minutes, you'll do great.

 

[X_dKKF]

It can be misleading to sell knives that were made elsewhere as "Sakai", but the background is that many knifemakers in Japan have been trained in Sakai but then went to other areas such as Tosa, so it's not like they would be outsourcing the knives to a cheap Chinese factory or so. Also, Sakai Takayuki has to make sure that the knives are up to their standards. And as @HumbleHomeCook has said, many users here have had very good experiences with the knives sold as Tsunehisa etc. I don't think you will be disappointed with the Sakai Takayuki.


Harder steels are generally more difficult to sharpen properly, especially deburring (other than that, it just takes much more time and you have less feedback). For learning to sharpen, there's worse steels than AS but I'd recommend a knife made from white 2 (shirogami 2), there's many affordable options around so that you can get it as a good learning knife and can then step up if you feel that you want something different. It could also turn out to be good for many many years as it's generally a really great steel. In any case, you will probably mess up a bit as all of us do, but if you remember to check the knife every few seconds to see if you sharpen the part you want to and flatten the stones every few minutes, you'll do great.

Thanks a lot for the insight. And it sounds like I am on the wrong track from the very beginning (should've the questionnaire filled out beforehand)...Appreciate your input. Restarting my research on something white instead of blue

 

[Delat]

Thanks a lot for the insight. And it sounds like I am on the wrong track from the very beginning (should've the questionnaire filled out beforehand)...Appreciate your input. Restarting my research on something white instead of blue

I think AS/blue/white are all pretty good for learning how to sharpen. White might be a bit easier, but IMHO it’s like saying a 1” putt is easier to sink than a 2” putt. By comparison, VG10 or R2 would be a 6’ putt.

For <$200 blue/white I like Shiro Kamo and Y Kato. I’m sure others will chime in with other great suggestions too. RSK linked below frequently have sales (follow them on instagram for notification).

https://realsharpknife.com/collections/gyuto/products/kato-as-kurouchi-180mm-gyutohttps://realsharpknife.com/collections/gyuto/products/yuki-210mm-gyuto

 

[X_dKKF]

I think AS/blue/white are all pretty good for learning how to sharpen. White might be a bit easier, but IMHO it’s like saying a 1” putt is easier to sink than a 2” putt. By comparison, VG10 or R2 would be a 6’ putt.

For <$200 blue/white I like Shiro Kamo and Y Kato. I’m sure others will chime in with other great suggestions too. RSK linked below frequently have sales (follow them on instagram for notification).

https://realsharpknife.com/collections/gyuto/products/kato-as-kurouchi-180mm-gyutohttps://realsharpknife.com/collections/gyuto/products/yuki-210mm-gyuto

Thanks for making it clear...I have a SG2 santoku and not planning sharpen it for that exact reason.

Darn those are solid deals. Gonna think about them seriously.

 

[Delat]

Thanks for making it clear...I have a SG2 santoku and not planning sharpen it for that exact reason.

Darn those are solid deals. Gonna think about them seriously.

The first two knives I learned sharpening on were VG10 and SG2. With good equipment it’s not too bad, but probably depends on your temperament. They just take more patience and care with sharpening and deburring. Simple carbon steels like blue/white give results/feedback much faster but the edge might not last as long (this varies depending on the particular knife and maker).

 

[madmotts]

Simple carbon steels like blue/white give results/feedback much faster but the edge might not last as long (this varies depending on the particular knife and maker).

Second this. White #1 is probably the easiest to learn and practice. Of course any of the white/blues are pretty straight fwd.

kyohei/enjin in blue 2 is a fun one on the lower priced side (skip the rounded handle). Tons of options in simple carbon tho.

I’ve seen that Takayuki kengata AS 200mm for sale used a few times. Someones gotta know about it.

 

[Cliff]

I don't see much difference in difficulty in sharpening whites and blues. R2 is quite a bit more difficult for me.

I'd get the knife you like. AS will hold its edge quite a bit longer and require less sharpening, which may not be a bonus in this context.

I have both Moritaka and Munetoshi and love both. I would also look very seriously at Shiro Kamo in white no. 2, blue 2, or AS. His knives are great value.

For Moritaka, and, to a lesser degree, Munetoshi, I think you will also want to learn how to thin and work on bevels beyond the edge. They are knives that get better with use.