Anyone tried building a commercial kitchen at home?

[krx927]

Super interesting thread!
I am in the process of buying a new hom, so I will be building my kitchen in the coming months. Although, I will certainly not build a comemrcial kitcila, I am interested in getting some commercial elemnts. Especially good top gas burner. I see a discussion here: Wlof/viking/bluestar. I am in EU and bluestar seems to be US only. Anyone from Europe can make a reco?

I would also like to know this.

 

[Tristan]

I do have a glass door fridge in the basement where I do dry aging, but I definitely want something bigger and more conviniently located in the kitchen.

Stone pizza oven is totally out of the question though, out of my price range and nowhere in my yard or kitchen to do this, unless I tear down the house and start from scratch.

You have a fridge with a glass door or you’ve converted the basement into a walk-in glass door fridge?! Please say the latter.
some day I will tear down and build from scratch. It’s a once in a lifetime dream.

 

[Tristan]

You have money burning a hole in your pocket! I am envious. I'd like the cash to build an espresso machine - doubt it would ever be half as good as a slayer but I'd love to make a sculptural piece displaying the copper...


Any cool ideas about how you will organise your pantry (as mundane as that sounds...)

No, been planning for years, and still at least a few more before this project takes place. Meanwhile running a humble Expobar, and recently borrowed a rocket.
Not sure about pantry yet. But what elements specifically in the pantry?

 

[lemeneid]

You have a fridge with a glass door or you’ve converted the basement into a walk-in glass door fridge?! Please say the latter.
some day I will tear down and build from scratch. It’s a once in a lifetime dream.

I wish it were the latter, but its a repurposed Coca Cola fridge now for dry aging.

 

[The Edge]

Been thinking of redoing the kitchen for a while. Still need time to pay off some debt, and build cash reserves. What we do when we get there depends on money at the time.

Dream kitchen would be a walk in pantry in the garage. Tons of counter space. 8'x4' end grain butcher top. Large copper sink. Stand alone fridge that will fit full size sheet pan. Stand alone freezer that will also fit a sheet pan. Double wall ovens that will fit a full size sheet pan. Cook top with at least 6 burners and at least a 2'x2' flat top.

Pantry will be organized with clear square containers, going from larger on the bottom for flour, rice, and the staples we consume more, moving up the shelving to smaller containers for things like whole spices. If I'm super lucky, I'll turn the pantry into a temp and humidity controlled space, and be able to cure meats in there too. So add another sink and a prep table to the pantry area as well.

At the very least, we are knocking down a couple walls, and expanding the kitchen to be more open. As of now, the kitchen is small, and when we do dinner parties, I get left out of the group when finishing off the cooking, and plating.

Would like a separate fridge and chest freezer in the pantry area for drinks and whole animals.

The biggest thing I've been thinking about is layout. I want to take produce out of the fridge, and place it on the counter. Have a sink in line with that, so I can wash the produce next, and then have the butcher block prep area on the other side. The stove area will be in the middle of the kitchen on an island, and the ovens off to the side, so my wife can bake at the same time I'm cooking, without getting in each others' way.

Don't really care about the dishwasher, as I think cooking requires constantly cleaning anyway. I would suck at cooking competitions, as I clean as I go, and take my time.

I'm sure I'll have to compromise when the time comes, but having different plans, and deciding what's more important now is fun.

 

[pleue]

I'm gonna be in this world this year or the next. Background is I have about 10 years in kitchens, currently in the construction/remodeling world, and have about an acre of land with a large garden and a tiny house and a house next door that we rent out. We're going to have 1-3 tiny type homes on the property so having a central space to gather would be ideal. We throw a 60-100 person party each year and that's the extent of the big stuff but we cram 10-15 in our 750 sq foot house to eat in the living room often pre-rona so it'd be nice to have some place we can do that a bit easier. The garden is going to produce a lot of food in the coming years to put up in one way or another.

Two kitchens is a difficult thing to manage and have it feel coherent when thinking about a remodel. The idea is to build an addition on our small house (a small barn with a breezeway/vestibule) and have the house be small and home like and warm and nice and the barn be big and messy and wild (kitchen, camping gear, bathroom, workshop, spare rooms). The home kitchen will be where most of the cooking happens for meals. The barn is for projects (bread baking, fermenting, butchering, wok cooking, etc.) and gatherings. Therefore, very little day to day groceries go in the barn, it kinda all stays in the house unless there's an intent to do something. Right now, I just put everything I need to wok cook on a sheet tray and bring it to a prep table next to the burner, all of which lives outside (shoutout to stainless!).

On the docket for the barn: Extended pantry storage (home canned goods etc. that don't fit well in our house kitchen and can be put up after canning), Storage for kitchen gear/pots/etc. that don't live in my house (looking for an old school trophy case or something I can put on casters that keeps the dust off), 2 single door freezers (we don't have a freezer in the house kitchen, just a glass door cooler), small undercounter domestic ice machine, single door restaurant fridge, small undercabinet fermenting fridge, 8x4 butcher block, 3 comp with pot washer and prep sink, hand sink, high temp undercounter dish machine, commercial vacuum sealer, meatgrinder/meat slicer, induction burner, counter top convection oven. I have everything except the convection and induction burner, mostly scrounged from old jobs, auctions, craigslist, etc. The wok burner may live outside (don't want to put in a type 1 hood though I won't certify this as I don't plan to run a business out of here and the hood I have is 1000cfm which probably isn't enough for a real wok burner) It could also go inside as I'll use it for pressure canning and the like and that'll be the extent of it. I'll probably plumb a gas line outside with a quick disconnect to be able to use the deep fryer and pasta cooker I have or those may go away. I'll probably leave the others with a quick disconnect and only dust them off and hook them up when I want to use them. The kegerator will also stay outside (it lives outside currently) as will the grill/bbq/smoker/etc. I could see getting a small flattop as well for cooking for a crowd (making tortillas, okonomiyaki, etc.) but for the most part a way to boil a big pot, and induction burner, and cleanup/prep space is what I'll need for that purpose. To be fair, all of this is unnecessary for large gatherings. We can generally do it in the house with an assist from the setup outside and the spare fridges but it's the dream and would certainly make things easier as folks have kids and families get bigger.

 

[pleue]

Some things to consider:

How are you using it? Is it just to play restaurant or are you going to operate something out of there? It's a different beast depending on that answer. Things like back flow preventers/testing, grease interceptor, indirect drains for sinks (floor drains and trap primers), ansul system/testing, makeup air,hood requirements, etc. all start to be important when thinking about the build and whether it passes health and building inspection.

Agreed on flooring stuff. Putting FRP on your home walls sounds terrible. As does having stinky restaurant mats in your house. Look into a bulletproof sheet good for your floor and you should be fine if it's just a high use kitchen. Things like marmoleum etc. Tile on walls should be fine for most. You can tile the floor as well but it won't be comfy for long periods of time. My space is going to be slab on grade so it'll have a polished floor which is water restistant/proof but if it were a real functioning space I'd put an epoxy floor down.

EU stoves - lacanche, lacornue, verona, gaggenau, miele, ilve, alpes inox, aga. You probable have more options than we do. None go as hard toward commercial as blustar. Lacanche are my favorite.

Gas you can get higher # meters to compensate for line size but you need a regulator at each appliance. You may need a larger electrical service depending on your appliance load. Going from 200-400amps gets very expensive. A real restaurant stove has no insulation so it's kind of a hazard around kids and the clearances around it are much bigger (no wood cabs right next to it for example).

If I had to pick one thing to have as part of a commercial-ish kitchen in my house it'd be a good range hood (non commercial, those things are f-in loud) followed by a commercial dish machine/stainless sink/counter and a place to store a rack or two.

 

[Luftmensch]

No, been planning for years, and still at least a few more before this project takes place. Meanwhile running a humble Expobar, and recently borrowed a rocket.

Hehe.... Nice! I got a heavily used original rocket giotto (circa ~2009?) for a song. The thing was doing small caffe volumes in a large office for close to a decade. They seemed to responsibly service it. I stripped it down, cleaned it and put it back into use! Of course... now that I had obligated myself into setting up an espresso machine at home, i promptly spent several times more (than the rocket) on nice grinder...

I might upgrade one day. If the electronic circuit blows, I will want to replace it. Social distancing has been so much easier with cafe quality coffee at home! Dunno with what... Depends on how much savings I have at the time.

Not sure about pantry yet. But what elements specifically in the pantry?

Ha! Dunno? I was hoping you could tell me (so I don't have to think about it).

Our current spice and can organisation is really fiddly and mysterious. I never full know what spices or cans we have or how many are left. They are stuffed into boxes or stacked into deep cupboards.

I would love to have a really big organised spice wall - where everything we had was visible. For can storage I think it would be really cool to have a line of 'hoppers'. Pull a can you want to use from the bottom and stack new cans in the top! You'd need a hopper for all the frequently used cans (e.g. tomatoes, beans, chickpeas)...

Pantry will be organized with clear square containers, going from larger on the bottom for flour, rice, and the staples we consume more, moving up the shelving to smaller containers for things like whole spices.

Also more of this . We already have 'grain' and 'pasta' bins. I'd like to atomise that further. Hopefully there would also be more buy-in from the household. The ingredient apartheid is often violated

If I had to pick one thing to have as part of a commercial-ish kitchen in my house it'd be a good range hood (non commercial, those things are f-in loud)

Definitely...

 

[Tristan]

Ah now I understand.
So only two things I’ve given any thought to is a magnetic strip with all the spices stuck lid first onto it so visually and physically accessible.

Figure one wall of that.
Part of the Island to have drawers with large bins built in to hold flour sugar and other basic baking essentials so you can pull the drawer out and measure dry ingredients immediately.
The rest I haven’t figured

 

[Luftmensch]

Part of the Island to have drawers with large bins built in to hold flour sugar and other basic baking essentials so you can pull the drawer out and measure dry ingredients immediately.
The rest I haven’t figured

That would be pretty awesome.


While I am fantasising ... if I could get the aesthetic right, I might have a minimal 'tool' wall where all the frequently used kitchen implements were on display. Like a clean workshop. If you had visually interesting kitchen gear, you could make a feature of it. White background... some properly managed lighting to cast shadows. It might look interesting... or it could be a disaster. At least everything would be instantly accessible! I bet it would be a nightmare to keep clean though (dust, etc).

 

[ExistentialHero]

That would be pretty awesome.


While I am fantasising ... if I could get the aesthetic right, I might have a minimal 'tool' wall where all the frequently used kitchen implements were on display. Like a clean workshop. If you had visually interesting kitchen gear, you could make a feature of it. White background... some properly managed lighting to cast shadows. It might look interesting... or it could be a disaster. At least everything would be instantly accessible! I bet it would be a nightmare to keep clean though (dust, etc).

Pegboard walls work really well in kitchens:

(Sorry for the mess, life in progress)

 

[Luftmensch]

Pegboard walls work really well in kitchens:

View attachment 80629

(Sorry for the mess, life in progress)

Nice space usage! I also like the onion and garlic trays.

I definitely want my skillets hanging up somewhere. Apart from being convenient, I like that aesthetic for some reason?.

 

[WildBoar]

Part of the Island to have drawers with large bins built in to hold flour sugar and other basic baking essentials so you can pull the drawer out and measure dry ingredients immediately.

Rather than deal with full bins, we chose to go with a large base cabinet that has pot drawers, and we have flours, sugars, etc. in metal canisters in the drawers. We rarely need more than 6-8 cups of flour at a time though.

Using the metal canisters helps keep the items well-sealed, and we can easily pull them out and use them in another part of the kitchen as needed. Also we can refill them in one of the sinks, reducing the potential for covering a portion of the kitchen in flour dust.

 

[Tristan]

Pegboard walls work really well in kitchens:

View attachment 80629

(Sorry for the mess, life in progress)

Crayola and garlic gets my vote for best placement.
extremely functional and planned space!

 

[Paraffin]

We did a partial commercial kitchen in the big remodel years ago. It's an old Victorian house, so the general theme was "1920's kitchen" with subway tiled walls, but enough modern conveniences to make it a great home kitchen.

We commissioned a giant, long custom copper hood with two commercial grade blowers and filters over the stove area. We had to route the exhaust through a 90 degree bend and out to the side wall next to the kitchen.

That huge, powerful hood let us install a (non-commercial) Viking wok burner next to the (non-commercial) stove. That hood is really essential to how I like to cook. Our next house when we move will have a kitchen remodel that starts with a great hood and vent system as the primary consideration, and we'll work backwards from there.

The cabinets, counter space and island were non-commercial and aimed at the '20's vintage theme, but at the far end of the kitchen in the cleanup area we went full commercial -- a freestanding large stainless steel sink with two side wings, a large commercial gooseneck spray faucet over the sink, and a disposal underneath. There is a commercial Hobart dishwasher under one of the wings.

I love the Hobart dishwasher, but it has two issues. First, it's really more of a sterilizer than a washer, you have to manually clean off any food residue before loading it. And second, Hobart service can be tricky because they don't usually service residential locations. Our house was a Bed and Breakfast before we bought it, so whenever I have trouble getting a service call, I have to fall back on that and say it's still operating as a B&B.

We're putting the house on the market soon, downsizing for the next one. I still want a nice kitchen, and we'll probably go straight "commercial look" at least, with stainless counter tops and prep area. I would really love a commercial "wet Wok" arrangement with water pool surrounding the burner, but probably can't go restaurant-grade high heat. I'll probably end up settling for another Viking wok burner. I'll try to get another Hobart dishwasher if I can manage it, and get it serviced.

 

[pleue]

Have any photos? Sounds like a really fun space and quite a remodel.

We did a partial commercial kitchen in the big remodel years ago. It's an old Victorian house, so the general theme was "1920's kitchen" with subway tiled walls, but enough modern conveniences to make it a great home kitchen.

We commissioned a giant, long custom copper hood with two commercial grade blowers and filters over the stove area. We had to route the exhaust through a 90 degree bend and out to the side wall next to the kitchen.

That huge, powerful hood let us install a (non-commercial) Viking wok burner next to the (non-commercial) stove. That hood is really essential to how I like to cook. Our next house when we move will have a kitchen remodel that starts with a great hood and vent system as the primary consideration, and we'll work backwards from there.

The cabinets, counter space and island were non-commercial and aimed at the '20's vintage theme, but at the far end of the kitchen in the cleanup area we went full commercial -- a freestanding large stainless steel sink with two side wings, a large commercial gooseneck spray faucet over the sink, and a disposal underneath. There is a commercial Hobart dishwasher under one of the wings.

I love the Hobart dishwasher, but it has two issues. First, it's really more of a sterilizer than a washer, you have to manually clean off any food residue before loading it. And second, Hobart service can be tricky because they don't usually service residential locations. Our house was a Bed and Breakfast before we bought it, so whenever I have trouble getting a service call, I have to fall back on that and say it's still operating as a B&B.

We're putting the house on the market soon, downsizing for the next one. I still want a nice kitchen, and we'll probably go straight "commercial look" at least, with stainless counter tops and prep area. I would really love a commercial "wet Wok" arrangement with water pool surrounding the burner, but probably can't go restaurant-grade high heat. I'll probably end up settling for another Viking wok burner. I'll try to get another Hobart dishwasher if I can manage it, and get it serviced.

 

[Tristan]

Any and all kitchen photos would be amazing!

 

[Tristan]

Nice space usage! I also like the onion and garlic trays.

I definitely want my skillets hanging up somewhere. Apart from being convenient, I like that aesthetic for some reason?.

Because you’re like nakneker and have a complete Blu Skillet collection?
which grinder did you settle on

 

[Luftmensch]

Because you’re like nakneker and have a complete Blu Skillet collection?
which grinder did you settle on

I wish! If we are talking future dream space, I might get a full line up of copper for the looks. In reality i will probably just fill out what we have with one or two more Lodge...

I purchased my coffee grinder with aesthetics as a big consideration. The coffee machine used to stick out like dogs bollocks in our previous kitchen. We had a galley kitchen where one side opened up into the lounge/dinning area. So I wanted something that would look nice and match the stainless steel aesthetic of the rocket. Don't get me wrong, I researched my options and read reviews. In the end I chose an ECM Titan 64... it is more grinder than I need, but it has the features I want and the aesthetics (which is what I was willing to pay a premium for). In that price bracket... perhaps I should have gone for a conical burr machine.

How about you?

 

[Tristan]

Rocking a malkonig vario for the last decade. Still running.
i think grinders evolve faster than machines so whilst Slayer is sitting atop the heap now will see when the time comes. And for now I’m favouring the mazzer mini e.
Just keeping an eye on caedo

 

[Paraffin]

Have any photos? Sounds like a really fun space and quite a remodel.

Here are some shots from a few years ago. The Viking wok burner is to the left of the Aga stove -- which is no longer there, we're converting to a standard gas stove for eventually selling the home. That thing was great to cook on, and was perfect for a Victorian house, but ate too much propane.

The stainless commercial sink is at the far left of the bottom photo, kinda hard to see and I don't have a separate shot of that with the Hobart dishwasher.

The two lower cabinet drawers just to the right of the refrigerator are Sub-Zero pull-out refrigerators, which let us use a narrower main fridge without giving up the refrigerator space we wanted. And the Falk copper pots are used all the time, they're not decoration.

 

[pleue]

ooo she's a looker I love the casework and how well everything fits in with the age and feeling of the home. You look like you're in the NW based on your floors.

 

[parbaked]

Here are some shots from a few years ago.

That hood is gangster...take it with you!
Whoever buys your home won't deserve it!

 

[lemeneid]

I think Massimo Bottura’s home kitchen is a good starting point for what a commercial kitchen at home should be like.

 

[Tristan]

Thank you, I enjoyed watching that clip

 

[zetieum]

Some things to consider:

EU stoves - lacanche, lacornue, verona, gaggenau, miele, ilve, alpes inox, aga. You probable have more options than we do. None go as hard toward commercial as blustar. Lacanche are my favorite.
[..]
If I had to pick one thing to have as part of a commercial-ish kitchen in my house it'd be a good range hood (non commercial, those things are f-in loud) followed by a commercial dish machine/stainless sink/counter and a place to store a rack or two.

super useful! Thanks for shairing

 

[Tristan]

So while the thread is current, wanted to get opinions from users on some ranges available locally. (No blustar right now)

Wolf and Viking (probably a what to watch for with these two brands)
La Cornue (not my preferred aesthetic)
Miele

Some other brands are available locally though haven’t seen much else that was called up earlier.

 

[ptolemy]

Whatever you do, if you could please document your journey is as much detail as possible.. From permits, to special wiring, to sizing of the exhaust, to your choices of sink.

Should be an awesome project

 

[Tristan]

Here are some shots from a few years ago. The Viking wok burner is to the left of the Aga stove -- which is no longer there, we're converting to a standard gas stove for eventually selling the home. That thing was great to cook on, and was perfect for a Victorian house, but ate too much propane.

The stainless commercial sink is at the far left of the bottom photo, kinda hard to see and I don't have a separate shot of that with the Hobart dishwasher.

The two lower cabinet drawers just to the right of the refrigerator are Sub-Zero pull-out refrigerators, which let us use a narrower main fridge without giving up the refrigerator space we wanted. And the Falk copper pots are used all the time, they're not decoration.

Somehow I didn't reply: must have been commenting in my head.
That space is absolutely fantastic.
Can just see the amount of thought and care that went into the planning, and then you ended up with a space that is uniquely yours and also fabulously specced. Exactly the objective of the rework I'm planning.
I need time to get on so I can hit the savings goals and get on this... Maybe stop buying knives along the way to speed it up.

 

[Luftmensch]

Rocking a malkonig vario for the last decade. Still running.
i think grinders evolve faster than machines so whilst Slayer is sitting atop the heap now will see when the time comes. And for now I’m favouring the mazzer mini e.
Just keeping an eye on caedo

Nice! Mazzer make great grinders. The mini was high on my list - I probably would have gotten it if I didn't let 'shiny' get the better of me.

Here are some shots from a few years ago.

I think Massimo Bottura’s home kitchen

Both stunning! Wow!

Was just watching how everything was largely waterproof and could be scrubbed down and wondering if anyone made a wet/dry kitchen that way.

I think both of the above kitchens show how you can approach a commercial utility and aesthetic without modifying the walls and flooring for water management (at least it doesnt look like they have!). Personally I would avoid stripping and rebuilding a kitchen to allow surfaces to be hosed down. @WildBoar said some useful things on this point. It is a lot of additional cost for something you will likely under utilise. I would direct that money towards better appliances and fittings or other cool ideas!