Burr removal

[hibbs00]

Been learning up on Cliff Stamp some more lately and I really like most of his teachings but I came across that he says a burr should be removed before adding a micro bevel so your micro bevel isn't based on weakened steel. What is your guys thought on that?
He talks about high angle 45dps passes to cut off a burr but isn't that already a micro bevel?

 

[aporigine]

Been learning up on Cliff Stamp some more lately and I really like most of his teachings but I came across that he says a burr should be removed before adding a micro bevel so your micro bevel isn't based on weakened steel. What is your guys thought on that?
He talks about high angle 45dps passes to cut off a burr but isn't that already a micro bevel?

I believe this is an “advanced technique/learned by feel” situation. The point imo is to make such light passes that a new bevel isn’t established, but the raggedies are removed.

Something beyond my skill level, but I can visualize it if that makes sense.

 

[hibbs00]

I believe this is an “advanced technique/learned by feel” situation. The point imo is to make such light passes that a new bevel isn’t established, but the raggedies are removed.

Something beyond my skill level, but I can visualize it if that makes sense.

Interesting. That makes sense. It also reminds me of the kippington method. Seems very similar. I like the idea of building my edge on strong steel. For the life of me I don't understand his plateau method. I mean I get it but I can't do it. I'm wondering how he would advise someone to burr base sharpen. Maybe raise my burr and try the kippington method and then alternate leading passes at my micro bevel angle.
I come across an interview (no video, just an article) where they asked him what a beginner should do. He simply says cut off the edge until it's flat, form a burr on one side, form a burr on the other, raise the angle and micro bevel. I know he talks a lot about burr minimization techniques like cross grit pattern and high angle passes. I want to see how sharp I can get with the burr method and not relying on a strop. So far I can shave but just barely. Not hair popping

 

[Benuser]

Been learning up on Cliff Stamp some more lately and I really like most of his teachings but I came across that he says a burr should be removed before adding a micro bevel so your micro bevel isn't based on weakened steel. What is your guys thought on that?

Exactly the reason why deburring after every stone in the progression is being suggested.

 

[cotedupy]

@cotedupy the nail test you do, are you slicing your nail to see if it's smooth or are you kind of rocking the blade? What's the difference between the two? Is it to check for 2 different things?

@myguidingmoonlight has answered perfectly already - you’re effectively checking the coefficient of friction* between the knife and your nail. It’ll tell you first whether the edge is apexed, and secondly the state of the apexed edge/burr.

There is a potential slight complication, in that a very high grit, polished edge can feel similar to a blunt (non-apexed) one. In practice though; probably no one here is taking normal double-bevel kitchen knives to the level where that’d be relevant or confusing.



* I believe I’ve said it before, but: Everything about how anything cuts anything is about how friction works. That’s why these nail/finger tests work so well. And why you can translate them and know how the same edge is going to cut food, paper towel, &c.

 

[hibbs00]

@myguidingmoonlight has answered perfectly already - you’re effectively checking the coefficient of friction.* It’ll tell you first whether the edge is apexed, and secondly the state of the edge/burr.

There is a potential slight complication, in that a very high grit, polished edge can feel similar to a blunt one. In practice though; probably no one here is taking normal double-bevel kitchen knives to the level where that’d be relevant or confusing.



* I believe I’ve said it before, but: Everything about how anything cuts anything is about how friction works. That’s why these nail/finger tests work so well. And why you can translate them, and know how the same edge is going to cut food, paper towel, &c.

I hear so many different things. Some say run your nail along the whole edge and it should be smooth. Some say put the edge on your nail and it shouldn't want to move and some say edge on nail and tilt and twist. It gets confusing after a while lol

 

[cotedupy]

I hear so many different things. Some say run your nail along the whole edge and it should be smooth. Some say put the edge on your nail and it shouldn't want to move and some say edge on nail and tilt and twist. It gets confusing after a while lol

Yep, that kinda demonstrates why you can’t learn it from reading about it. People do things different ways and you just have to find what works for you, and get dialled into that.

I would say though - you *definitely don’t* want to try slicing the whole length of the edge through your nail. Cos that’s potentially really quite a dangerous and nasty thing to do.

Go back and watch what I do in my video in the other thread, which is as good a place to start as any. At no point when I do a nail test does the knife actually physically move in relation to my nail. But you can still very easily judge the level of resistance/friction.

 

[hibbs00]

Yep, that kinda demonstrates why you can’t learn it from reading about it. People do things different ways and you just have to find what works for you, and get dialled into that.

I would say though - you *definitely don’t* want to try slicing the whole length of the edge through your nail. Cos that’s potentially really quite a dangerous and nasty thing to do.

Go back and watch what I do in my video in the other thread, which is as good a place to start as any. At no point when I do a nail test does the knife actually physically move in relation to my nail. But you can still very easily judge the level of resistance/friction.

I like what you do if I'm right. I put the edge on my nail and lightly try to move it back and if it will take force to move it I know it's sharp. I try that on different spots along the edge. I need to try that when I know there's a burr actually so I know what that feels like too.
I'm very determined to slice paper towel like you do. That's my goal right now just so I know I can do it.
It's also a big trend on Reddit right now too I noticed. Still haven't seen one quite as good as yours. You're the king