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Jville said:
I have a Lara Copper frying pan
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😲

Interesting. Out of curiosity.... why?? No problem (or judgement) with that at all! I just got the impression they were a small operation with mostly local reach. Nice to know the internet is connecting them wider 🙂
 
Jville said:
Yeah, I have a Lara Copper frying pan. Absolutely wonderful. I have some thicker set of heavy copper sauce pans, different maker, also with tin lining and love them too. I am a big fan of tin lined copper. When it comes to the whole melting at 450 issue. I just don’t use it for stuff like that ie. searing steak or a thick pork chop. But sautéing a chicken breast no problem, actually pure joy and ease. And for sautéing things in general just wonderful to work with.
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Wow, I'm also surprised (pleasantly) that one of these made it half way around the world. I would love to hear the story behind that if it's not too rude to ask.

Thanks for the positive feedback. You have made my mouse finger itchy as the cursor hovers over the "buy now" button.

I figure that I would still use carbon steel for high temp applications like searing steak. I guess tin lined copper would be more suited to more delicate tasks such as sauces, eggs and maybe fish?

What sort of tools do you use on the Lara pan? Silicone and wood?
 
Tin-lined copper is more non stick than stainless steel so yes things like fish would be perfect. I often use my tin-lined saute pan to make meatballs, as they don't stick to the bottom and hence there is less chance of them falling apart. You can fry in tin-lined pans, using high heat, just don't heat them empty.

For me the issue with tin lined is cleaning: you really need to be careful not to use a scrubby. When I'm the one doing the dishes it's okay: I clean the pan straight after having used it. But if someone else is cleaning make sure he/she knows what they are doing!

If you want new tin-lined you could check out Mauviels here: Copper Cookware Bakeware

Some other random bits copper related. I'd be cautious trying to retin yourself: it can be dangerous and if you don't know what you're doing chances are you will be smearing the tin on too thickly. Making your pan less ideal. If you live in/near Belgium a good place to retin is the Falk factory, that is where I did my Dehillerin. These guys are pro (as you'd expect!).

Finally, as someone else already mentioned: thick aluminum disc based pans like the Fissler Original Profi are an excellent alternative for larger size copper saute pans. I personally prefer my 28 cm Fissler over my 28 cm Mauviel ss-lined. Typically for larger sized pans you won't be making lots of recipes where responsiveness comes into play, but instead you will want to have a more conductive bottom.
 
Came over to a friends house to make dinner for her, thought you guys would enjoy her entryway. My guess is nothing is even 1mm thick
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Nemo said:
Wow, I'm also surprised (pleasantly) that one of these made it half way around the world. I would love to hear the story behind that if it's not too rude to ask.

Thanks for the positive feedback. You have made my mouse finger itchy as the cursor hovers over the "buy now" button.

I figure that I would still use carbon steel for high temp applications like searing steak. I guess tin lined copper would be more suited to more delicate tasks such as sauces, eggs and maybe fish?

What sort of tools do you use on the Lara pan? Silicone and wood?
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My bad, forgot to get back to you. I tried Lara Cooper pan partially, because they seemed relatively inexpensive to get eventhough shipping wasn’t cheap. Great pan. It had a little bubble on the bottom that I had to adjust, but it works perfect now. It’s great really for anything you sauté chicken breast, veggies, sauces, etc. But yeah for Steaks even fish that you want to do quickly at high heat carbon steel or cast iron. Very versatile pan, when coupled with cast iron or carbon steel you basically cover everything, maybe except certain Teflon applications like a French omelette or something. The tin is pretty non stick but carbon steel can still be a little better and Teflon, of course, is even more non stick.
 
IMHO polished hammered French copper is aesthetically pleasing. I used to use Wenol, but now use Flitz. The large stock pots are great for simmering stocks. Long time simmering with stock pots made from other thin materials (aluminum, stainless steel) are more likely to burn. You can put the entire stock pot in the oven. The selection is wider for tin-lined compared to stainless steel. Re-tinning will cost as much as the pan did new. The urge to collect copper cookware is as bad as that for fine cutlery. Too bad gas is being phased out.
 
As soon as you toss the whole pot in an oven - which tends to have fairly even heating - does the quality of the pan even matter anymore? 🤷‍♂️
 
Just to add to the above which I don't know the answer, but are large pots clad on the sides to where they work like copper pots?
 
Jovidah said:
As soon as you toss the whole pot in an oven - which tends to have fairly even heating - does the quality of the pan even matter anymore?
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The short answer is yes, it makes a difference. However pan size and shape is most important. If we are talking premium pans, they will do a good job if the size & shape is appropriate. Cheap cookware with thin sides, thin bottoms is another matter.

I have simultaneously baked the same braised chicken dish in an all-clad pot and creuset enameled cast pot of about the same size and had them come out quite different. Both of those pots had thick bottoms and thick sides but I think the more conductive aluminum in all-clad made it cook quicker with better browning. That was that particular dish. Another dish might come out better in the creuset. Both got the job done well but there were differences.

The above said, if I have 2 pots of the same size and shape I will have a favorite and thats the one that stays in my kitchen. What has stuck around in my kitchen is french copper pots, and all-clad pots (I mostly have MC2 with thick aluminum walls). I have several creusets but they are mostly used when I have nothing else of similar size/shape. Many seem to like their oval pots, and they come in many nice medium sizes that all-clad doesn’t offer.

I think a good 8” pot, 9.5” pot, 11” pot, a 11” sauté/braising pan, and an oval pot or two are a nice set.
 
Interesting about the All-Clad vs the Le Creuset, I have been using a Le Creuset 32 cm roaster because I have been using lemon when roasting a chicken. This leaves out my cast iron and carbon steel pans. I have not tried an All-Clad as I need to. The very bottom of the chicken does not brown in the Le Creuset pan. My latest favorite right now is an old mom's pan from the 1950s that almost feels like some kind of steel that is enameled on the inside. I use a rack in the pan so the chicken is more exposed so the bottom of the chicken will cook better. But it cooks best for me. Does exposing more make for a better chicken. Tall sides seems to make for a less crispy chicken. Maybe I am mixing up roasting and braising a chicken. I guess if I was going to do a mushroom sauce with the chicken maybe I would do it in a pot.

So, is copper going to perform better?

It is too hot to try anything right now in Texas. I need to wait for it to cool off.

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I have a 12-inch All-Clad copper core fry pan on its way to me. I will try it in the fall to see how it compares to my Le Creuset in the oven.

To me convection in the oven with as much chicken exposed as possible makes for a crispy chicken.
 
My 12” all-clad skillet gets well used for crispy meat with a pan sauce. Butterflied chicken in the oven with some sort of sauce is a typical use. Another common use is steak au poive done on the stovetop which involves searing steak, pan sauce, and flambé.

If I want crispy skin on chicken thighs without a pan sauce I like seasoned carbon steel. I don’t typically use carbon steel with a pan sauce or anything baked in the oven.

For whatever reason I’ve never been tempted to upgrade my 12” all-clad skillet to a french copper one. I’m sure your AC copper core will work really well.
 
btbyrd said:
I've done a lot of things wrong in the kitchen, but I've never burned stock before.
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I wish I could say the same... a couple years ago, I was gifted about 30 pounds of bear bones from an acquaintance who hunts and who knows I love to cook. I made a lovely batch of bear stock (how could I resist? the novelty!), and I was reducing as I always do with stock, so I could freeze it into small cubes. As I was reducing it on the back porch over my wok burner, an old friend who I had not seen in years unexpectedly popped in and we visited for several hours, and I lost all track of time.

At some point, one of my kids came home and said they thought there must be a fire in the neighborhood, but it smelled like it was coming from our backyard! It was, of course, my stock, which had reduced past the glace stage to something resembling coal. I was heartbroken. And yes, I had burned the stock.
 
So, does a copper stock pot really make a difference? I am thinking about an All-Clad copper core 8qt stock pot for cooking gumbo. I don't own a clad stock pot. My stock pots are Revere Ware stock pots with copper bottoms. I have a 4qt, 8qt, 12qt, and 16qt. Maybe I can make the ruox right in the pot with good even heating.
 
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btbyrd said:
I've done a lot of things wrong in the kitchen, but I've never burned stock before.
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I've cooked the white veal stock, and then the brown veal stock as per the Larousse Gastronomique 1961 edition, dozens of times. Early on, I burn't the ingredients. I was using the 20 qt. Revereware stock pot, with a diffuser. Never had another problem with 12, 20, and 35 qt. Ville Dieu, or Mauviel copper stock pots. Had some great fetes, oxtail stew, pheasant salmis, game stock.
 
Jovidah said:
As soon as you toss the whole pot in an oven - which tends to have fairly even heating - does the quality of the pan even matter anymore? 🤷‍♂️
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Make sure the handles are going to be able to "handle" it. I'd rather have 2.5mm copper than aluminum or stainless steel.
 
coxhaus said:
So, does a copper stock pot really make a difference? I am thinking about an All-Clad copper core 8qt stock pot for cooking gumbo.
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that will work great! I use my all-clad 8qt and bourgeat copper 6qt without much thought, whichever one is the right size gets the job. The AC is 10.5” and the copper is 9.5” diameter. I’d love to get the bourgeat 11” casserole pot but its not a priority. The AC has a nice steamer to place atop that gives it double duty. Definitely get one of these.

If its just for stock, something taller would work better but the 8qt gets the job done and works very well for braises, stew, curry, jam, pie filling, and other things that its the perfect height for. It works great in the oven. A cheap taller pot for stock is an option. Some prefer to use thin wall pots for stock so the residue on the walls above the liquid is less likely to burn.
 
I don't think it makes a difference, at least for the pot you're considering. I have the Copper Core 8 qt stockpot and while I like it ver much, I wouldn't recommend buying it unless you get a really good deal on one. Except for my pressure cooker, all of my stainless cookware is All Clad -- a mix of D3, Copper Core, and D7. I honestly don't notice much of a difference between D3 and the CC -- and certainly not enough of a difference to justify the retail price difference. It's marginally more responsive. Maybe a touch more even. Maybe. I recommend All Clad all day long, but again would never recommend the copper core unless you get a really good deal on it. But either will be much better than Revereware.
 
Too late., I decided to buy the All-Clad 8 qt copper core pot. I bought a 7-piece set which includes the 8 qt stock pot.

I like the All-Clad copper core better than the D5 using gas. I sold my D5 fry pan.

I will end up with two 3 qt sauté' pans. I have an old Viking tri ply made in the US 3 qt sauté pan.

I do like the All-Clad D3 pans. They are just hard to find. The copper core is easier for me to find nowadays.
 
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coxhaus said:
I will end up with two 3 qt sauté' pans.
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you have 3 sauté pans! The 8qt works really well on the stove. The high sides deter crispy meat but once you add liquid that is irrelevant. It works extremely well on things like beef burgandy, bolognese that involve browning meet/vegetables, adding wine/stock/tomatoes and simmering until done. I would use a shorter pan for a typical braise with a moderate amount of liquid but the 8qt would get the job done quite well. The high sides deter splattering when browning meat.
 
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