Coticules

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Desert Rat said:
I splurged a bit on the bay for this 7" x 1 1/2" glued combo. It's easily my finest coti, it's on the hard side.
Can anyone tell me about the La Rose brand, when, what layer ect? It has the bottom half of the box but not the top. Regretfully the stamp isn't going to survive me.

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http://www.tomonagura.com/coticules/la-rose.htmlhttps://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/53654-la-rose-hone.htmlPic also from SRP.
Screenshot_20230714-094232_Firefox.jpg

Sounds like a good one. Does it have a glued slate or BBW? From what I gathered la rose was under "old rock" category.
 
SwampDonkey said:
Thanks for the insight. I'll hit it with the diamond and see what happens
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So that pink coti definitely needed a diamond to build up proper slurry. It's still quite hard and slow, I didn't love it on carbon but oddly enough it seemed to remove noticeably more metal on an SG2 knife stated to be 62-63 HRC. Not what I expected.

I was sharpening a bunch of other knives so ended up using the pink coti as a slurry stone on a full size BBW and was very pleased with results. It still released a respectable amount of slurry on the BBW for a nice combo grit that put some proper screaming edges on aogami and shirogami, verified under microscope.
 
ok finally arrived and I decided to give it a try on my (very aggressively thinned) Mazaki 240. Which looking at the picture you can see I didnt do, uh, 100% the best job on the edge bevel near the top either lol. Though it's properly even and apexed nearer the bottom at least.

Belgian Blue side is about 12mm thick, it felt (and looked) like it was cutting very quickly. Aggressive edge, more so than I typically leave knives but then Im me. I think based on some knives Ive bought off BST that's what most of you are all into. Felt Aizu ballpark? Clean cut, very aggressive.

Coticule side is more like 8-9mm, feels really nice, just what I like. Relatively hard without being glassy. This is in the range I really like for edges, feels very analogous to some of my Ohiras, but the ones that finish like this tend to be a bit harder than this stone I think.

Overall this is a nice stone that for edges seems like a really great package. Given the two sides, relatively large surface area and results, I think this was a cool pickup and Im glad to have it, but it satisfies my curiosity. From my perspective it's pushing towards being bit pricey, even though this stone isn't shaped amazingly. I think you can get a stone that will give comparable edge results but also let you polish, and be taller for not too much more. It's tougher these days, but it's doable. I think maybe if you only wanted an edge stone though, this would be hard to beat. It definitely is well beyond the point where you can get good results, it's in the realm of your results are on you. To me it seems neither better nor worse than my collection of JNats, just a bit different. I can see why folks are enthusiastic about them, at least! The sharpening feel is very good, the results are good, the only thing not to like is how hard it is to get a large stone and how much you'd have to pay, especially if you wanted a really square one.

PXL_20230717_145434655~2.jpg
 
tcmx3 said:
ok finally arrived and I decided to give it a try on my (very aggressively thinned) Mazaki 240. Which looking at the picture you can see I didnt do, uh, 100% the best job on the edge bevel near the top either lol. Though it's properly even and apexed nearer the bottom at least.

Belgian Blue side is about 12mm thick, it felt (and looked) like it was cutting very quickly. Aggressive edge, more so than I typically leave knives but then Im me. I think based on some knives Ive bought off BST that's what most of you are all into. Felt Aizu ballpark? Clean cut, very aggressive.

Coticule side is more like 8-9mm, feels really nice, just what I like. Relatively hard without being glassy. This is in the range I really like for edges, feels very analogous to some of my Ohiras, but the ones that finish like this tend to be a bit harder than this stone I think.

Overall this is a nice stone that for edges seems like a really great package. Given the two sides, relatively large surface area and results, I think this was a cool pickup and Im glad to have it, but it satisfies my curiosity. From my perspective it's pushing towards being bit pricey, even though this stone isn't shaped amazingly. I think you can get a stone that will give comparable edge results but also let you polish, and be taller for not too much more. It's tougher these days, but it's doable. I think maybe if you only wanted an edge stone though, this would be hard to beat. It definitely is well beyond the point where you can get good results, it's in the realm of your results are on you. To me it seems neither better nor worse than my collection of JNats, just a bit different. I can see why folks are enthusiastic about them, at least! The sharpening feel is very good, the results are good, the only thing not to like is how hard it is to get a large stone and how much you'd have to pay, especially if you wanted a really square one.

View attachment 255618
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That's a good size! If you decide to move on from it, I'll relieve you of the weight :)
 
SwampDonkey said:
That's a good size! If you decide to move on from it, I'll relieve you of the weight :)
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trying to get me to part with anything these days is a bit like trying to squeeze blood from a stone ;) a very, very lazy and busy stone.

you'd have better luck trying to buy one of my JNats, this is the only coticule and belgian blue I own so I'm unlikely to part with it.
 
ok been testing the BB side and...

I'm not as impressed as I am with the coticule side. While the edges are good, I gotta say I would not pick this stone over an Aizu unless I needed the extra grunt of the harder particles. While the edges are a wash, the stone feels softer than I personally like, and I am not as keen to try to deburr on the stone as such.

The edges really are as good as anything else, but I imagine sourcing a stone as big as the last Aizu I bought would cost multiple times as much if it were even possible.
 
captaincaed said:
FWIW, I feel like edges come pretty clean off the Belgian family of stones. What was your experience with burr vs a jnat?
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I mean, it's not that the edge is coming off with some massive burr, it's more that due to the feeling of softness on the stone I dont want to do the relatively high pressure sideways deburring that I prefer.

I do not like edge leading.

In terms of burr formation it doesnt feel that different but these stones are all relatively fine anyway so there won't be much anyway. It can all be cleaned off but my typical feeling is that while I dont often try to get super duper clean edges off stones I want to do at least SOME of the work there so I can spend less time on a loaded strop.
 
captaincaed said:
Gotcha that makes sense. Yeah the lateral pull could scar the stone pretty easily. The "binder" is pretty soft.
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yeah and for sure I'm splitting hairs but the reason for that is I was really curious about some of the practical differences between JNats and these stones and it was sort of hard to parse out how they differed other than each having fans.

I think the BB is cool and if I were budget conscious I would be totally cool with one since they seem to be pretty inexpensive. I just don't have the same enthusiasm as I do for the Coti side of my stone or my favorite JNat midgrits.
 
A good yellow coti is a thing of beauty. My own thinking, sounds similar to yours, is that BBW punches above its weight but isn't the end all be all.

It does produce a high contrast, working class bevel finish with ease. It's so fast and so forgiving
 
I've been unhappy with the feeling of my big BBW (from Sharpening Supplies) as it made more grinding racket than my Chosera 800 and felt super hard whereas the baby BBW from Ardennes-Coticule felt much more creamy and smooth, more like a coticule. I had sharpened several knives on the biggun and lapped it with a diamond a bit and a coticule as a slurry stone. Finally got angry at it today and went after it with the 140 diamond plate for 5 minutes. Sharpening enjoyment was vastly improved, it doesn't feel so...gravely and released slurry more easily. Put I wonderfully toothy edge on my Yoshi SKD.

20230731_132055.jpg


The vertical scratches are from the diamond plate but I noticed these dark deposits that look glassy smooth and reflect light. Any idea what they are?
 
SwampDonkey said:
I've been unhappy with the feeling of my big BBW (from Sharpening Supplies) as it made more grinding racket than my Chosera 800 and felt super hard whereas the baby BBW from Ardennes-Coticule felt much more creamy and smooth, more like a coticule. I had sharpened several knives on the biggun and lapped it with a diamond a bit and a coticule as a slurry stone. Finally got angry at it today and went after it with the 140 diamond plate for 5 minutes. Sharpening enjoyment was vastly improved, it doesn't feel so...gravely and released slurry more easily. Put I wonderfully toothy edge on my Yoshi SKD.

View attachment 258968

The vertical scratches are from the diamond plate but I noticed these dark deposits that look glassy smooth and reflect light. Any idea what they are?
Click to expand...

Manganese dioxide.

Post in thread 'Coticules' Coticules
 
M1k3 said:
"Hey, how do you go about detecting a burr after 10 pints and a few whiskeys? Without nicking your finger?"
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"if I'm hippy flipping on mushrooms and Molly, And realize I need to shave to enter the living center of consciousness, is it OK to use a CrOX strop or do I need to finish on naturals and plain leather?"

"Also how do I keep my hands from shaking".
 
captaincaed said:
"if I'm hippy flipping on mushrooms and Molly, And realize I need to shave to enter the living center of consciousness, is it OK to use a CrOX strop or do I need to finish on naturals and plain leather?"

"Also how do I keep my hands from shaking".
Click to expand...
No hands, no shaking.
 
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