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jared08

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Im looking for a production powdered metal knife. Interested for the edge retention factor. The only knife I can find is the gesshin kagero line, with exception to an m390 artifex. Are there other lines out there im not familiar with to compare with before I pull the trigger?
 
Tanaka, itou, shun, takeshi saji.
 
Im unfamiliar with the brands youve listed mostly. Who sells akifusa, takamura, and takeshi saji? Are these 3 comparable it quality to the gesshin line?
 
Blazen and Miyabi. Also a variety of ZDP-189 knives (Sanetsu, Henckels Twin Cermax).
 
I believe gesshin kagero and akifusa come from the same factory, but the kagero has been tweaked by Jon; epicurean edge carries the Akifusa. MTC kitchen sells the Takamura. The Tanaka and Saji are in a completely different price range than the others; they're ~ $500. Both can be had at JCK.
 
There are lots of knives in CPM-154 a lot of custom makers use it along with some production knives.
 
Im looking for something in the 200$ range, 210mm. Cant afford custom. Just want to play with a badass steel for reasonable money. Or atkeast see if it really is worth the craze.
 
No offence to anyone who thinks differently but steel is a small factor in a blade I belive it comes more down to the person who made it. The geometry, heat treat and sharpening is what makes a knife badass not really the steel. If you get a low end knife with white steel it will probebly perform badly where as if you buy one from someone like carter it will be amazing.
 
I have Tanaka R2 gyuto and definitely can not complain about edge retention.

I agree with jai - making choice base on the maker makes more sense than based on the steel.
 
I have a Takamura R2 210mm and it's pretty slick if you like thin knives. No idea about edge retention though.
 
I hear you about maker, heat treat, and other factors. By starting with the gesshin line as the standard I thought that put forth a quality standard that jon would only sell.
 
Powdered steel knives are very interesting. As far as I can figure out the process results in a very small carbide size and a high carbide volume. Small and unified carbide size is what makes white steel hard to work with and what makes someone like Carter a much better bet than a maker with a lesser reputation. I may be wrong but I am under the impression that powdered steel, because of it's unique properties, offers a more reliable chance of coming out of the heat treat with a consistent carbide matrix. Especially when compared to whitte steel as mentioned earlier.

I have used Mario's cpm154 and also Blazen and liked them both. Neither struck me as being difficult to sharpen and had edges that degraded from peak sharpness to about 90% and then just stayed there for a really long time. I do think it is helpful with these steels to incorporate diamond at some point in the sharpening process and have found stropping with chromium oxide is not very helpful.

A different animal from carbon to be sure but a fun ride and one worth taking.
 
Im sure it would be great but just get a nice knife that fits what you want based on how it cuts weight and thickness compared to basing it on steel types.
That way you well get something you really like. Once you have owned dozens of gyutos and stuff I guess trying out different steels is nice but really like I said a steel is only as good as the person who deals with it.
 
Thanks chuckles. I am to the point of trying a knife for the steel. as long as the profile and geometry arent atrocious. Its not gong to be a big prep knife that i have in hand for 4+ hours a day. Maybe an hour of prep and 8 of line work. I think given the way pm works, i could benefit from its retention for a week or two without sharpening.
 
I'd go with the kagero just based on Jon's reputation as a seller and I've seen some choil pics. Looks awesome
 
PM steel and AS are on my future buy list along with Kato :) I think choosing next knife based on steel is as valid as anything else especially if you are getting it from a known maker.
 
Heard. I have used many types of steel, high and low end, good and bad ht. I just want a specimen of well heattreated powdered steel.
 
Powdered steel knives are very interesting. As far as I can figure out the process results in a very small carbide size and a high carbide volume. Small and unified carbide size is what makes white steel hard to work with and what makes someone like Carter a much better bet than a maker with a lesser reputation. I may be wrong but I am under the impression that powdered steel, because of it's unique properties, offers a more reliable chance of coming out of the heat treat with a consistent carbide matrix. Especially when compared to whitte steel as mentioned earlier.

I have used Mario's cpm154 and also Blazen and liked them both. Neither struck me as being difficult to sharpen and had edges that degraded from peak sharpness to about 90% and then just stayed there for a really long time. I do think it is helpful with these steels to incorporate diamond at some point in the sharpening process and have found stropping with chromium oxide is not very helpful.

A different animal from carbon to be sure but a fun ride and one worth taking.
Why does small carbide size make steel hard to work with?
 
I think he means that it's hard to get small uniform carbides in some steels.

Hoss
 
The Akifusa PM has been around a long time, lots of people have used it and had good things to say about it, and it is not so expensive.
 
The only AS knives I've use are Takeshi Saji's, and the retention is very good for how easy they are to sharpen. Grind on his cheaper knives can be a little funky though, having said that, I still love mine. I also recently picked up a Shimatani in HAP40 from Japan Tools Metal Master, and it's the best $250 I've ever spent on a knife. Easy to sharpen, holds it's edge, never chipped, hefty (which I like) but cuts like a dream. Maybe I got lucky, but honestly, it makes my shig feel like a piece of crap. Just wish it was a 270.
 
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