Daily processing knife.

[wanderingbutcher]

Hey folks ! I'm in the market for a new boning knife as my current Victorinox boning knife is just about worn to a nub. I am about to start working at a steakhouse for the summer but will be returning to a small custom beef and pork processor this fall. I've filled out the knife questionaire and will have that pasted below. I love the over all shape, handle and flex of my semi-stiff 6 inch rosewood handled Vic but the steel is just so soft and I'd like to be able to go longer between sharpening. I typically have to hit my shapton 1000 & 5000 once a week with daily stropping. If it's a high volume week I often have to sharpen more often than that.

LOCATION

USA



KNIFE TYPE

Boning knife



Are you right or left handed?

Right



Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? No preference



What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

5-7 inches



Do you require a stainless knife?

No



What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $275





KNIFE USE

Professional processing and burchering environment.



What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for ? Boning and processing large primals and sub primals as part of day to day tasks in a professional meat processing facility/butcher shop.





What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Victorinox 6 inch curved rosewood boning knife semi-stiff.



Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Whatever grip is most effecient and allows best movement and control in a given situation and space constraint.



What cutting motions do you primarily use? Draw and push cutting.



What improvements do you want from your current knife? I'd like a harder steel and better edge retention. The Victorinox while very comfortable and forgiving just gets dull too quickly even when I take extreme care to be mindful of bone and cartilage.





KNIFE MAINTENANCE

Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? I use rubber and soft synthetic cutting boards.



Do you sharpen your own knives ? Yes I have Shapton 320,1000,5000 grit stones and leather strops for various compounds.

For my daily processing knife I was sharpening once a week on a good week and high volume weeks with lots of bone out requests more frequently. Often a stropping throughout the day was sufficient with a visit to the 1000 and 5000 stone weekly.

 

[AT5760]

These seem to be popular among those who do a lot of butchering: https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...ning-bd1-stainless-steel-black-micarta-handle

@tgfencer @mise_en_place may have better recommendations. I think they both are/were butchers.

 

[wanderingbutcher]

These seem to be popular among those who do a lot of butchering: https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...ning-bd1-stainless-steel-black-micarta-handle

@tgfencer @mise_en_place may have better recommendations. I think they both are/were butchers.

Thanks man ! I'll definitely reach out and see if they have any suggestions!

 

[nopomo]

The Kanehide Bessaku line is analogous to Victorinox with harder steel.

 

[iimi]

The Kanehide Bessaku line are analogous to Victorinox with harder steel.

Seconded, the most practical step up in my experience and opinion. It's hard to find a good semi-stiff knife option in that range, I did grind out the spine on an old monosteel gyuto into a boning knife shape and that thing is one of my favorite butchery knives I've used in a kitchen.

 

[blokey]

you can also let Harner make you one, funnily his boning is exactly $275…

 

[wanderingbutcher]

The Kanehide Bessaku line is analogous to Victorinox with harder steel.

Thats pretty nice looking ! Definitely going to check it out. For the price even if it's just a decent step up I'd be super pumped.

 

[mise_en_place]

I've never had the chance to use anything from Harner. Years ago I tried to reach out and never got through.

If anyone is willing to loan me one of his butcher knives I'd be real nice to it.

 

[tgfencer]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I'll add to it for posterity.

The Kanehide line is good, very affordable (CKC sells them), the steel is super bitey at 1-3k and holds an edge surprisingly well even on crappy polyboards. I like them a lot and they are in my opinion far and away better than Victorinox. I have both the 150mm, which I use for chicken, and 170mm, which is a good all-rounder for pork/beef. They come as single-bevel if I recall correctly (or maybe like 90/10 I forget) but you can easily sharpen them into double bevel if you prefer.

I've recently been enjoying the Invictus as well. Super comfortable handle, decent carbon steel, and a worthwhile upgrade on the traditional K-Sab offerings. If you've never used the French or Spanish style wider, stiff blades it can take a minute or two to adjust, but its pretty painless. Its sort of a cross between a French boning knife and a hankotsu and I dig it enough I bought a second on sale at Bernal a while back.
https://bernalcutlery.com/products/...svK-1Sz0MuARRqWgSjkkdYb3QeIrEoh5HpUSd7jffH06r

The closest thing to a straight upgrade on a Victorinox is a Silverthorn. I have two 6in and have used the trimming knife on a loan from @mise_en_place a few years ago. I like them, especially for tunnel boning and skinning pork, but I wish the blades were slightly wider, espeically the tip. If they were cheaper they'd be an easier recommendation for me.

The Harners do look intriguing, I'll admit..

 

[wanderingbutcher]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I'll add to it for posterity.

The Kanehide line is good, very affordable (CKC sells them), the steel is super bitey at 1-3k and holds an edge surprisingly well even on crappy polyboards. I like them a lot and they are in my opinion far and away better than Victorinox. I have both the 150mm, which I use for chicken, and 170mm, which is a good all-rounder for pork/beef. They come as single-bevel if I recall correctly (or maybe like 90/10 I forget) but you can easily sharpen them into double bevel if you prefer.

I've recently been enjoying the Invictus as well. Super comfortable handle, decent carbon steel, and a worthwhile upgrade on the traditional K-Sab offerings. If you've never used the French or Spanish style wider, stiff blades it can take a minute or two to adjust, but its pretty painless. Its sort of a cross between a French boning knife and a hankotsu and I dig it enough I bought a second on sale at Bernal a while back.
https://bernalcutlery.com/products/...svK-1Sz0MuARRqWgSjkkdYb3QeIrEoh5HpUSd7jffH06r

The closest thing to a straight upgrade on a Victorinox is a Silverthorn. I have two 6in and have used the trimming knife on a loan from @mise_en_place a few years ago. I like them, especially for tunnel boning and skinning pork, but I wish the blades were slightly wider, espeically the tip. If they were cheaper they'd be an easier recommendation for me.

The Harners do look intriguing, I'll admit..

I've used K-Sab style boning knives before and really like the additional stiffness. Especially on the kill floor where I've seen too many vics snap or lose a tip.The Invictus and a Japanese skinning knife from Bernal cutlery really caught my eye. I've found some good deals on the Kanehide and Masahiro and I've got them and some others in my shopping cart waiting till I get paid next lol.

 

[ckwan]

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I'll add to it for posterity.

The Kanehide line is good, very affordable (CKC sells them), the steel is super bitey at 1-3k and holds an edge surprisingly well even on crappy polyboards. I like them a lot and they are in my opinion far and away better than Victorinox. I have both the 150mm, which I use for chicken, and 170mm, which is a good all-rounder for pork/beef. They come as single-bevel if I recall correctly (or maybe like 90/10 I forget) but you can easily sharpen them into double bevel if you prefer.

I've recently been enjoying the Invictus as well. Super comfortable handle, decent carbon steel, and a worthwhile upgrade on the traditional K-Sab offerings. If you've never used the French or Spanish style wider, stiff blades it can take a minute or two to adjust, but its pretty painless. Its sort of a cross between a French boning knife and a hankotsu and I dig it enough I bought a second on sale at Bernal a while back.
https://bernalcutlery.com/products/...svK-1Sz0MuARRqWgSjkkdYb3QeIrEoh5HpUSd7jffH06r

The closest thing to a straight upgrade on a Victorinox is a Silverthorn. I have two 6in and have used the trimming knife on a loan from @mise_en_place a few years ago. I like them, especially for tunnel boning and skinning pork, but I wish the blades were slightly wider, espeically the tip. If they were cheaper they'd be an easier recommendation for me.

The Harners do look intriguing, I'll admit..

Sorry to be bump this back up @tgfencer but how would you say the Invictus goes in breaking down chicken or do you mainly use it to process other proteins?

 

[dehory]

Sorry to be bump this back up @tgfencer but how would you say the Invictus goes in breaking down chicken or do you mainly use it to process other proteins?

I have an Invictus and think it works great for chicken butchery. It strikes a good balance of flexy tip that’s fine enough to
fillet, wide blade (unlike a fillet knife), and robust spine/heel.

My main complaint with the knife is the impractical handle design/build. Since there’s no bolster, gunk inevitably gets into the gap between tang and scale, so I end up trying to keep contact with the product further away from the handle, and losing a good inch of useable edge length. I’m going to try filling it with beeswax, but it doesn’t seem like a great long-term solution.

 

[tostadas]

I have an Invictus and think it works great for chicken butchery. It strikes a good balance of flexy tip that’s fine enough to
fillet, wide blade (unlike a fillet knife), and robust spine/heel.

My main complaint with the knife is the impractical handle design/build. Since there’s no bolster, gunk inevitably gets into the gap between tang and scale, so I end up trying to keep contact with the product further away from the handle, and losing a good inch of useable edge length. I’m going to try filling it with beeswax, but it doesn’t seem like a great long-term solution.

View attachment 362090
View attachment 362091

You can mask off the blade and fill it with epoxy. That should take care of the gap issues.

 

[Jovidah]

A lot of those Masahiro / Kanehide blades also exist in a plastic handle option. Might take some digging to find them though.

 

[tgfencer]

I agree with @dehory, the Invictus works fine for chicken. I would also agree that the handles do sometimes catch stuff, but nothing a bristled brush can't sweep away (this is very common with the general category of hankotsu style and blades I've found). Even cheap western boning knives will often end up catching things where the blades enters the handle as the plastic/wood gets nicked or roughed up. My coworker has a couple that are a true PITA to clean if they catch a tiny piece of sinew or fat. I think I will probably epoxy mine though, now that @Jovidah has recommended it, just to save having to check it.

There are usually plastic handled Kanehide/Masahiro at Carbon Knife Co and/or Strata, in case anyone was looking for them. I wouldn't say I find them any more or less grippy than the basic wood handled ones, but they do largely solve any handle gap issues. Also, the handle on the 180mm ish one does have a small finger guard if that's important to you.

(FYI, if you catch one of Bernal's occasional 20% sales, you can get an Invictus for around $75, which is a pretty good deal I think. They also have a permanent, non-stacking 10% discount if you're in the food industry.)

 

[WhilemyKnifeGentlyWeeps]

A lot of those Masahiro / Kanehide blades also exist in a plastic handle option. Might take some digging to find them though.

Blueway Japan is selling a few different models on ebay. I am unsure if the price is competitive or not.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235803624571

 

[blokey]

Carbon carries some Kanehide plastic too

Blueway Japan is selling a few different models on ebay. I am unsure if the price is competitive or not.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235803624571

pretty close to Miura
https://miuraknives.com/brand/25-masahiro-マサヒロ

 

[tgfencer]

Carbon carries some Kanehide plastic too

pretty close to Miura
https://miuraknives.com/brand/25-masahiro-マサヒロ

Yup, and the shipping costs are roughly the same too between Blueway and Miura, just depends on the exact length/shape you're looking for as to who's carrying what you want. Carbon Knife Co is roughly equivalent too in the end, with slightly higher prices, but lower/free shipping with faster delivery.

The Kanehide/Masahiro gyutos are nothing fancy and require a bit more upfront work than the butchery knives. I had a one of those taller, wooden handled 270s I lost in the flood, but even though I resisted at first, I ended up needing to do a bit of work to add in some convexing to increase the cutting ability and I eased the choil because that thing was almost as sharp as the blade.

 

[ckwan]

Thanks i think I'll opt for an Invictus at the next sale, seems like a good all rounder for meat especially compared to a honesuki kakus, much like a silverthorn would be but just in a different style. Does make me wonder though that hankotsus/French boning knives are abit underrated for home especially compared to honesuki kakus unless you're a one type of every knife person.

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah for some reason people here are suffering from chronic Japanophilia so people regularly overlook western style filleting knives, boning knives etc. When they would probably make a lot more sense for most people. Especially those who only do occasional boning / filleting work like most home users.

I'm not sure hankotsu would make much sense for most users, from what I gathered they're mostly intended for hanging butchery - though I have no experience with them myself.

 

[tgfencer]

I really don’t like honesuki. A garasuki, okay maybe, but in general there is a 99.9% chance another knife you own can do what you need as well or better. The most useful part of a honesuki is that pointy k-tip, but you can find hankotsu that have that style of tip and they’re much better.

@Jovidah Hankotsu are great utility knives for the kitchen in my opinion, since the general blade shape and common handle style are both very neutral. They’re sort of a blank canvas of a knife. You can change the edge angles, grind, etc to fit what you like best. For instance, I often fully convex mine as I find it improves cutting a lot most of the time.

The un-sharpened first inch or so is great for scrapping on bones, but for the average non-butcher, you can just sharpen it in and have full-length edge use. They’re intended for hanging butchery, but I think they get pidgeonholed in that box a little too much.

In some way they’re like a distant cousin to the French “massive” style chef and petty blades, where the first third or so of the blade has a different utility than the final third.