Delaminated Damascus Deba: How concerned should I be?

[YolDovahkiin]

Hello all,

I recently bought a Hideo Kitaoka Shirogami #2 180mm Deba, and sadly after the first use during oiling I noticed a hairline crack in the damascus cladding. Because I already used it before noticing, I am unable to return it for a replacement.

That being said, how concerned should I be about the knife? Are there any special precautions compared to other knives that I should make with this one? I oil and maintain my carbon steel knives after each use, and I am careful not to apply too much force with cutting/using a softer end-grain wood cutting board considering the horror stories associated chipping and other major breaks. Or, am I just bothered by something minor?

Thank you in advance, below is the affected knife with the crack on the flat of the knife:

 

[Runner_up]

I personally wouldn't worry about that

 

[YolDovahkiin]

I personally wouldn't worry about that

What makes you say this? I am curious as to your thoughts on it.

 

[Runner_up]

Well it looks like a small surface crack on a very thick blade.

Doesn't seem like it will cause any weakness in the blade that would force you to use any special precautions. This is thick, hard steel after all. Unless if it's a giant crack the goes all the way through the core steel, or causes bits of metal to crumble away I wouldn't be sweating it.

Good lesson to carefully check your blade before 1st use though.

 

[billyO]

I wouldn't worry about it from a functional standpoint, either.
However, as a knifemaker, I wouldn't want this type of publicity, so I'd suggest looking into a replacement. Unless this was sold as a knife with a blemish, I'll assume you expected one without any defects and IMO you do have a valid case for either a replacement or your money back.
You might want to (and have to) pay attention to this section of the knife for the rest of the life of the blade. If the delam is big enough/deep enough, it could be a place where moisture collects and the blade could start to rust from the inside.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

I wouldn't worry about it from a functional standpoint, either.
However, as a knifemaker, I wouldn't want this type of publicity, so I'd suggest looking into a replacement. Unless this was sold as a knife with a blemish, I'll assume you expected one without any defects and IMO you do have a valid case for either a replacement or your money back.
You might want to (and have to) pay attention to this section of the knife for the rest of the life of the blade. If the delam is big enough/deep enough, it could be a place where moisture collects and the blade could start to rust from the inside.

That is the primary issue, I purchased it from a retailer since it is not really feasible to directly contact the smiths at Takefu village in Japan. Because I used it and did not notice the delamination until after first use when I oiled the knife, I cannot receive a replacement.

I agree that he probably does not want this kind of publicity, but in reality I do not think there is much that I can do to get a replacement (the return policy is not surprising to me, and like @Runner_up mentioned, it is a good lesson for the future even though normally I catch these issues like I did with a knife prior). I did expect a knife without defect, however there is no reason for me to hold it against the retailer. I should have been more careful when I unpackaged the knife.

Thankfully, the delamination is small, so I am hoping that it is relatively inert.

 

[Corradobrit1]

You might want to (and have to) pay attention to this section of the knife for the rest of the life of the blade. If the delam is big enough/deep enough, it could be a place where moisture collects and the blade could start to rust from the inside.

This would be my only concern. Maybe pack the fissure with beeswax. That should prevent water ingress

 

[YolDovahkiin]

This would be my only concern. Maybe pack the fissure with beeswax. That should prevent water ingress

Good point. That sounds reasonable, and hopefully that alleviates some of the issues that could arise.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I would still contact the seller. They may exchange it for you but if nothing else it might get them to check their remaining inventory to ensure there are no repeats.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

I would still contact the seller. They may exchange it for you but if nothing else it might get them to check their remaining inventory to ensure there are no repeats.

I already did. That is when they reminded me of their return policy (in a polite way, they were friendly even when breaking the news to me).

 

[fritze]

I already did. That is when they reminded me of their return policy (in a polite way, they were friendly even when breaking the news to me).

But you could ask for a discount. The delamination could not come from using it one time.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

But you could ask for a discount. The delamination could not come from using it one time.

Honestly, they did offer one, but I turned it down just because it was a relatively small amount compared to the price of the knife ($30). Considering the defect, I just decided to eat the cost almost like reprimanding myself for the mistake.

 

[fritze]

It is still a nice knife and when you seal the delamination you can have a lot of fun with it.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

It is still a nice knife and when you seal the delamination you can have a lot of fun with it.

Exactly. It is a great maker, and honestly it kinda adds to the knife just because you truly can tell it was made by hand. A bit of a wabi-sabi vibe if you get what I mean.

I have come to terms with the knife being imperfect and being unable to replace it, so really my purpose on here is just to make sure there are not any special precautions I need to follow.

 

[bruce8088]

Crack looks pretty superficial here from the pics so it should be fine in use imo but its a bad feeling not being able to return it though. I would be more concern if there was some odd things that go along the length of the whole knife like that kemadi suji on bst just now where when you look from the spine that core steel and cladding lamination is all wavy looking when it should be near straight in most cases, even tfs look more or less straight given their wabi-sabi-ness, probably no impact on use though like this deba.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

Crack looks pretty superficial here from the pics so it should be fine in use imo but its a bad feeling not being able to return it though. I would be more concern if there was some odd things that go along the length of the whole knife like that kemadi suji on bst just now where when you look from the spine that core steel and cladding lamination is all wavy looking when it should be near straight in most cases, even tfs look more or less straight given their wabi-sabi-ness, probably no impact on use though like this deba.

That is what I am thinking. Most likely should be fine, however yes, it certainly was a bit of a learning experience realizing I could not return it because of a small mistake on my end.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I would like to know who the vendor is that won't exchange the knife for a structural defect regardless of you using it once. I understand having to draw a line and all that but clearly there is nothing you can do as a user to cause that.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I'd be curious to know how easttowestshoppe.com would handle a situation like this even if you noticed the defect on arrival. Doubt you'd spot it in any regular photos even with forensic attention to detail.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Crack looks pretty superficial here from the pics so it should be fine in use imo but its a bad feeling not being able to return it though. I would be more concern if there was some odd things that go along the length of the whole knife like that kemadi suji on bst just now where when you look from the spine that core steel and cladding lamination is all wavy looking when it should be near straight in most cases, even tfs look more or less straight given their wabi-sabi-ness, probably no impact on use though like this deba.

Xerxes has really wavy cladding lines too. They look like an oscilloscope trace.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

I would like to know who the vendor is that won't exchange the knife for a structural defect regardless of you using it once. I understand having to draw a line and all that but clearly there is nothing you can do as a user to cause that.

Japanny is the company @HumbleHomeCook, and they are the online retailer responsible for seisuke knives in both Tokyo and Portland. Just to show you that they did have it listed online:

The situation sucks, but I understand their position and I don't blame them for it. They seem to be well run, and they throw discounts at you if you are unhappy with the order, so they do try and right the wrong even if you are unable to return it. It may be unsatisfying to some degree, but they do seem to try their best in this scenario.

To address it further, yeah I could not have caused it, but it seems to be a common practice for retailers. They may just stick to their typical methods of dealing with these issues just to keep it consistent.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

I'd be curious to know how easttowestshoppe.com would handle a situation like this even if you noticed the defect on arrival. Doubt you'd spot it in any regular photos even with forensic attention to detail.

@Corradobrit1 It seems like they have a similar return policy if you look at my screenshot from Japanny's website compared to the one from easttowestshoppe.com, excluding the time between delivery and return:

Had I noticed it before I used it the first time, they would have accepted it back without question.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Japanny is the company @HumbleHomeCook, and they are the online retailer responsible for seisuke knives in both Tokyo and Portland. Just to show you that they did have it listed online: View attachment 110676
The situation sucks, but I understand their position and I don't blame them for it. They seem to be well run, and they throw discounts at you if you are unhappy with the order, so they do try and right the wrong even if you are unable to return it. It may be unsatisfying to some degree, but they do seem to try their best in this scenario.

To address it further, yeah I could not have caused it, but it seems to be a common practice for retailers. They may just stick to their typical methods of dealing with these issues just to keep it consistent.

You are kind but that is still hard for me to swallow.

 

[TurboScooter]

Japanny is the company @HumbleHomeCook, and they are the online retailer responsible for seisuke knives in both Tokyo and Portland. Just to show you that they did have it listed online: View attachment 110676
The situation sucks, but I understand their position and I don't blame them for it. They seem to be well run, and they throw discounts at you if you are unhappy with the order, so they do try and right the wrong even if you are unable to return it. It may be unsatisfying to some degree, but they do seem to try their best in this scenario.

The way that policy reads to me is that you can return it for a manufacturing defect or damaged caused in shipping within 7 days; it says nothing about being unused in that case.

The brand new and unused part is only applicable to the second part.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

The way that policy reads to me is that you can return it for a manufacturing defect or damaged caused in shipping within 7 days; it says nothing about being unused in that case.

The brand new and unused part is only applicable to the second part.

That is a good point @TurboScooter, it honestly is a bit ambiguous in wording. Maybe that is attributable to a language barrier, but I highly doubt that based on the rest of the wording.

Either way, if the customer service representative (there is only one as far as I can tell) relays it as only being able to accept it if unused, then I just have to take it at their word since they have to agree to accept it back. They seem to be loose with their return policy otherwise, because they did not ask when I received the knife (it has been longer than 7 days) and rather they immediately offered to replace it.

 

[Corradobrit1]

@Corradobrit1 It seems like they have a similar return policy if you look at my screenshot from Japanny's website compared to the one from easttowestshoppe.com, excluding the time between delivery and return:
View attachment 110677
Had I noticed it before I used it the first time, they would have accepted it back without question.

Yet, on other pages it states ALL SALES FINAL. Confusing or what?

"All SALES ARE FINAL, no exchange, return or cancellation accepted. Buyer can ask for more photos if needed but I will not be responsible for damages or lost after the item has shipped. This is why I will insure and need a recipient signature for delivery. Thank you for understanding."

 

[YolDovahkiin]

You are kind but that is still hard for me to swallow.

I try to be @HumbleHomeCook, because at this point there is not much I can do. No reason to get angry at them really, so it is just better for me to move on and figure out ways to deal with the repercussions and how best to care for the knife as a result (the point of the thread).

 

[YolDovahkiin]

Yet, on other pages it states ALL SALES FINAL. Confusing or what?

"All SALES ARE FINAL, no exchange, return or cancellation accepted. Buyer can ask for more photos if needed but I will not be responsible for damages or lost after the item has shipped. This is why I will insure and need a recipient signature for delivery. Thank you for understanding."

@Corradobrit1 Definitely, and who knows why. However, if they are willing to accept returns when they act like they are unable, I would rather have that than no returns whatsoever. Not ideal by any means, but better than nothing.

 

[adam92]

You are kind but that is still hard for me to swallow.

Me too, I can't accept if my blade like this.

 

[adam92]

@Corradobrit1 Definitely, and who knows why. However, if they are willing to accept returns when they act like they are unable, I would rather have that than no returns whatsoever. Not ideal by any means, but better than nothing.

Now seems like small crack to you, but if you used over period, rust will get into the steel & suddenly crack in one days, I saw from FB Group having same issue like yours. Only thing is when will be crack, could be 1 years or 10 years, depends on how often you're using, like me almost filleting fish everyday, consider heavy user, that's too risky for me to use a blade like that.

If you pay the bill by PayPal, you can definitely get back your money for sure, but retailer I'm not sure, Depands on they care the reputation of business or not.

 

[YolDovahkiin]

@adam92 I fully understand the sentiment. Trust me, I am certainly bothered by the issue even still. However, I do not really have an alternative, and I cannot spend days/weeks or longer being upset about it. The knife may fail with time, but I am hoping that it does not and must do what I can to prevent it.

I did not pay with paypal, and I am not really the type to be spiteful on reviews or in any other manner, so really I can’t do too much since I already contacted them.