Disappointed from my knife Miyabi 600s

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Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.
 
Sharpen alot of Henckels,Wunstorf,mostly Forchners,Miyabi,& Shuns.All are pretty dull.Some have damage like chips & tips.Some I thin on 1"X42"belt Kalamazo sander.Mostly thin on Xcoarse DMT or 140 Atoma plates.Then go 600 Atoma finish Medium stone.clean up burrs either wt. newspaper or leather loaded wt. Adams #2 polish.
 
ThEoRy said:
Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.
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The knife is at 57HRc. This should hold 12-15* per side easily. I would sharpen this knife like a sharpen my othe J-knives. I don't understand why you would treat this differently than anything else as a beginning sharpener. BTW, a regular stainless Konosuke is 58HRc if I remember correctly.

If the OP is looking for us help him manufacture an excuse to buy another knife I get it. I know there's a lot of people who learned to sharpen on knives worst that a Miyabi...
 
As far as I know the stainless Konosuke is not made of the good old German X50etc. that causes specific problems you don't want a novice to start with. That's why I suggested a cheap carbon practice knife like an Opinel or a simple Herder.
 
ThEoRy said:
Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.
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Sure it does: you still need angle control and the ability to keep the edge evenly on the stone. Burr removal is basically the same process, too. Basic technique is basic technique.
 
El Pescador said:
The knife is at 57HRc. This should hold 12-15* per side easily. I would sharpen this knife like a sharpen my othe J-knives. I don't understand why you would treat this differently than anything else as a beginning sharpener. BTW, a regular stainless Konosuke is 58HRc if I remember correctly.

If the OP is looking for us help him manufacture an excuse to buy another knife I get it. I know there's a lot of people who learned to sharpen on knives worst that a Miyabi...
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You would sharpen this to a 12 degree angle up to 5-6k grit? Waste of time in my opinion.


EdipisReks said:
Sure it does: you still need angle control and the ability to keep the edge evenly on the stone. Burr removal is basically the same process, too. Basic technique is basic technique.
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I'm not disagreeing with you on this point. Obviously proper technique would help no matter what the steel or hrc or whatever. I'm just speaking to the differences at which I sharpen softer vs harder steels. On softer steels I stop at 1200 grit then drop back down and strop on 400-500 grit then felt. Doing this on harder steel knives doesn't make sense though since they can retain an edge at a higher level of refinement where I would progress up to 5k or higher depending on the knife. Two different techniques that do not translate well to sharpening differently hardened steels. I wouldn't do one to the other or the other to the one.
 
In my honest opinion who cares what you learn on as long as it doesent cause you to give up. Every knife is different some require slightly different techniques or progressions to reach there potential. Geeze I learnt to sharpen on camp knives and whustofs. And I belive that if I started learning how to sharpen carbon at the start it would of made me a bad at sharpening because its super easy to sharpen and small mistakes dont screw you up as much. If you learn on stainless when you buy a carbon knife you will be able to sharpen it easily. And also sharpening is about trial and error and learning. If already have a knife that is harder and takes more skill to sharpen why wouldent you practise on it. Im not trying to be a wanker just saying how I feel about the topic. I can get the shittest stainless knives shaving sharp. Yes they dont cut great because they often are clunky. If they are germans and and stuff. But the initial edge is still able to get really sharp and if you cant get it sharp you need to sit down and learn. Murray carter sharpened a pos knife on a cinder block and got ir shaving sharp. Technique, patience and learning from your mistakes is what makes a knife sharp not just carbon steel. Or better steel
 
Jai cannot argue wt. anything you stated.Esp. going fr. carbon to stainless.However I like to start beginning sharpeners on good steel esp. carbon so they can see immediate results.This encourages them to continue & refine their tech.Start them with walmart stainless,& they may give up before even starting to learn.
 
ThEoRy said:
Two different techniques that do not translate well to sharpening differently hardened steels.
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This is not a technique difference, it is a tool selection difference. Nobody is saying that anybody should sharpen the soft and hard steel the same way, but abrading metal and removing burrs are techniques, and they certainly carry over, one to the other. Deciding what stones to use on a particular steel is not what I am talking about when I say that learning to sharpen this knife will help somebody sharpen other knives.
 
Semantics. The point is I don't use the same methods on different steels because what works for one doesn't work for the other. You know this.

How can you practice removing the previous scratch pattern if there is no need to? Properly removing a scratch pattern is part of the technique employed.
 
ThEoRy said:
How can you practice removing the previous scratch pattern if there is no need to?
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By doing it anyway. It's how I learned it. No need to polish the edge of a gyuto on a 15k stone, but it doesn't stop people from doing that, either.
 
EdipisReks said:
By doing it anyway. It's how I learned it. No need to polish the edge of a gyuto on a 15k stone, but it doesn't stop people from doing that, either.
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Then when you use the knife and it doesn't work properly because you over polished it. What did you learn? How to improperly sharpen a knife. No thanks.
 
ThEoRy said:
Then when you use the knife and it doesn't work properly because you over polished it. What did you learn? How to improperly sharpen a knife. No thanks.
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:scratchhead: A Miyabi 600s with a high polished edge is going to work just fine at, you know, cuttin'. It's a piece of metal, not a incantation to summon Cthulhu.
 
Benuser said:
A highly polished edge on that steel won't hold. With some soft stainless it might work, not with this X50etc.
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I don't get it how level of polish correlates with edge retention. I'm assuming edge retention would depend on angles of sharpening and steel quality. What am I missing?
 
icanhaschzbrgr said:
I don't get it how level of polish correlates with edge retention. I'm assuming edge retention would depend on angles of sharpening and steel quality. What am I missing?
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I think the logic is that larger micro serrations will take longer to wear down than smaller ones
 
Benuser said:
A highly polished edge on that steel won't hold. With some soft stainless it might work, not with this X50etc.
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which means it will need to be sharpened again. Which is good practice for somebody learning sharpening. This has become very silly, I'm done with this thread.
 
This steel combines low scratch resistance and large carbides. Low scratch resistance is no problem on itself. You may high-polish French carbon. It's the combination with the large carbides that makes the high-polished edge so terribly weak.
 
Stainless blades in the high 50's wt. good HT can be sharpened many times in it's life.This is certainly true of Forschners.I never take these knives past a medium grit 1K-2K.
 
haha everyone atleast agrees get a stone and learn to sharpen. heck you dont even need a knife almost everyone i know has dull knives
 
WiscoNole said:
how do you plan on returning a used knife?
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The importer write on the check that i can return the knife if I will not satisfied with any reson.

also I ask the question becasue I feel like this knife not worth the 110$ and maybe i can buy someting better for this money.
but The way I understand from reading the reaplies, better ill buy stones for sharpening.
 
CoqaVin said:
Fujiwara FKM, Carbonext, Hiromoto AS, Misono Swedish, Geeshin Uraku all depends on what you need it for fill out the questionaire that is a sticky!
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LOCATION
What country are you in?
Israel



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
chef knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
8 inch

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
dont have to be stainless

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
150$ include shipping


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
For home using

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
by now i have Miyabi 600s

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
The grip of miyabi 600S very good for me

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
good shape out of the box

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
bamboo board

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Ill

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
 
Tojiro DP is still a good choice in the budget price range.
 
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