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I'm in touch with the Ultrasonic Guru, and have read his book, it's beginning to make sense now.
Already found the right surfactant and ordered it...a date for moving the RCA TT is forming so let the games begin...
 
can't neglect digital now that the analog journey is about to begin....initially I thought the package contained a few bricks so heavy was the MB..

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live Camerata RCO (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra members) and Victor Juilien-Laferriere

wow, I've seldomly heard strings sound so great live, projection expression, interaction interpretation......this was the intro of a piece written by Bottesini reworked for septet.

 
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back to basics, parts and pieces again....assembly using a new motherboard...
 

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point is that I do not need FAST memory or anything, I need LOW latency...

but at the moment it;s playing, and I clearly hear the benefits although I'm using the MB internal 2,5 Gbit NIC and not my ultra low latency Solarflare NIC and I'm only using 1 of the two CPU EPS cables (8pin vs 16 pin)

I like what I'm hearing...
 
tackling the last piece of the puzzle, passive cooling of the ultralow latency Solarflare NIC...

probably going to drill 4 holes and tap M3 thread in them to keep the heatpipe clasp in place, only to find a suitable heatsink and locate the flat heatpipe connectors...
 

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back to square one, either the MB or CPU (or both) is toast....the magic smoke must have sneaked out...

Seriously contemplating building a dual Intel Xeon version as next step.

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hmmm. As an alternative you could come to terms that unless there are dropouts from bad data transmission none of this makes a difference upstream from the DAC? :laughingchef:
 
hmmm. As an alternative you could come to terms that unless there are dropouts from bad data transmission none of this makes a difference upstream from the DAC? :laughingchef:
I could, but I've heard the differences...assuming digital is that simple is boring
 
back to square one, either the MB or CPU (or both) is toast....the magic smoke must have sneaked out...

Seriously contemplating building a dual Intel Xeon version as next step.

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Why not just establish the fault and fix it? You are already taking measurements. If you were happy with it before why build something else?
 
Why not just establish the fault and fix it? You are already taking measurements. If you were happy with it before why build something else?
I'm doing that, but the itch is that more CPU cores do better, and two times 10 cores exceeds 16 cores. The other very realistic advantage is core assignment can be done in a dual CPU system, so one CPU does handle task XYZ and the other ABC, low core load is also important.

Most parts will be interchangeable and in place, the MB is toast so I'll revert to the previous one and gather the parts to do a dual CPU experiment which I expect to the the end stage of this disease.
Xeon CPU's are dirt cheap and plentiful these days (used), the only thing I need to figure out is whether a dual CPU server can handle a type of RAM per CPU (figuring that the CPU contains the memory controller it should but the interleaving bit might access the other CPU's memory banks which could create traffic jams)
 
I'm not an audio nerd, but in general I wouldn't necessarily agree more cores is more better, at least not when the cores aren't the same and when you're going from singlesocket to dualsocket.
 
I'm not an audio nerd, but in general I wouldn't necessarily agree more cores is more better, at least not when the cores aren't the same and when you're going from singlesocket to dualsocket.
Just lookup what Taiko Audio is doing, they are pushing out Extreme servers by the dozens these days...easily the best digital front end for over two years or so now. Emile tinkered with a huge amount of Mb and CPUs before settling on the current design. Measured and auditioned.

My conclusion drawn so far match his pretty well.
 
Yes but given the wide spectrum of products in intels catalogue just getting any 2 xeons - especially if they're cheap and old - isn't necessarily an improvement in compute performance or latency over something like a brandnew 16 core from a consumer line.
It's also possible that his choice of cpu was motivated more by simply desiring a larger die on the chip, which makes it easier to use a completely passive cooling setup.
Going full passive, if you build something yourself, my main concern would be how to cool stuff like vrms, that normally relies on the case fans for cooling.
 
The Xeon 4210 were selected by Taiko after auditioning many many CPU's and Motherboards, including one MB they had custom made.

Fully passive cooling is easy enough, I'm doing it in my current build. Many VRMs, f.e. the MB using X570s chipset are completely passively cooled (CPU of course usually not), such is their efficiency nowadays.

The Xeon's are indeed easier to manage with passive cooling, but my system using a 125W TDP CPU runs at rock solid 39-41'C core temp.
 
Final verdict

the damage was;

A brand new MB
the ATX power module
A graphics card
two RAM sticks

an expensive lesson reminding me to unplug BOTH ends of stiff (high AWG solid core) cables as the Molex pins tend to stick out...
 
sound is reinstated, I still have to tame the Solarflare fiberoptic card into submission again...
For that I need to dabble in a bootable USB stick utility program in Linux...took me like 24 attempts to get the syntax correct last time around, fingers crossed.
 
I’m the type of audiophile, because of my experiences, believe that any digital source before a high quality dac just doesn’t make that much, if any difference. I know a lot of audiophiles don’t buy into that but I’ve heard no difference from running my Mac mini or any other decent digital source through my high quality dac. I honestly believe the dac is where the magic starts. If the dac can process the source properly then you’re done. I’ve had several get togethers with people bringing and trying all types of digital sources and it just doesn’t seem to make much difference other than the dac itself.
 
I’m the type of audiophile, because of my experiences, believe that any digital source before a high quality dac just doesn’t make that much, if any difference. I know a lot of audiophiles don’t buy into that but I’ve heard no difference from running my Mac mini or any other decent digital source through my high quality dac. I honestly believe the dac is where the magic starts. If the dac can process the source properly then you’re done. I’ve had several get togethers with people bringing and trying all types of digital sources and it just doesn’t seem to make much difference other than the dac itselif.
Greg,
I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I was there, too. If you get a chance to listen to a Taiko Extreme, or a high-end DIY server like Marcel's, I think you'll change your mind (or not, in which case save considerable money, time, and frustration).
Evan
 
Greg,
I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I was there, too. If you get a chance to listen to a Taiko Extreme, or a high-end DIY server like Marcel's, I think you'll change your mind (or not, in which case save considerable money, time, and frustration).
Evan
I realize it’s just my thoughts and I could certainly be wrong. I just haven’t heard anything at this point in my life to change my mind. Every digital source I’ve fed into my Lampizator Atlantic Plus sounds the same, even an ipod sitting on a pure i20 doc. I haven’t tried the Taiko Extreme and only a couple of made for the purpose servers though so my experience is limited.
 
As a software engineer with a strong hardware background, I can confirm that the digital source is pretty much irrelevant. If there is any relevance at all, it applies only to the medium.

The digital data stream, once it is on a wire, is what it is. There is no such thing as a string of bits that is "better". Where problems can arise is when the stream comes from something that is essentially mechanical, such as a compact disc. The readout of the data on the disc may not be perfect. There may be dirt, scratches, and so on, causing the readout of the bit stream to produce bad data. There are a whole bunch of tricks that allow a CD player to compensate for this. In particular, there is a decent amount of redundancy built into the encoding, so errors in the stream can be detected and, in many cases, 100% corrected such that the original data remains intact, even though there were some errors during reading.

Some errors are too serious to be repaired. In that case, a chunk of data in the stream goes missing. Good DACs will compensate for this by interpolating the missing data. In essence, they replace the missing piece of data by making a guess as to what it might have originally looked like by looking at the intact section of data just before and just after the error. In many cases, that is good enough to mask the error such that no human will be able to detect it. If the section of missing data gets too large, no amount of guessing can fix it, and you get a drop-out, where there is a moment of silence, or the interpolation is asked to do more than is reasonable and produces a bad guess, that is, distortion.

The important point here is that, in no case is there ever any doubt as to whether an error did occur or not. The DAC can tell with 100% accuracy when there is an error (any error, no matter how small or large). A DAC will never operate on a data stream that contains errors without knowing that there were errors.

If we take the mechanical component out of the equation, the picture changes. For example, if the source data is a Flac encoded stream that is read back from some storage device, such as flash memory, for all intents and purposes, the bit stream that comes out of the memory is 100% error free. The same applies to transmission mediums, such as wires, ethernet, optical fibre, whatever. Modern digital hardware is so good that it effectively never corrupts anything ever.

If we got the Flac stream onto the medium without errors, as is the case with direct-to-storage recordings, the bit stream that ends up on the storage device is also free of errors. Simply put, modern hardware makes no mistakes; at least not by any reasonable standard. I'd be far more worried about getting hit by an asteroid than some bit-level error in the transmission chain.

The only other sources of errors are on the analog side, say with the microphone, the microphone amp, or the analog-to-digital converter that turns the data into digital form. But those are things that, as a listener, I can't do anything about. Whatever distortion was produced during recording will be faithfully encoded in the digital data.

The other error source is in the playback chain, when the data is converted back into analog and processed from there. Lots of potential for errors on that path, in the DAC, in the amplifiers, etc.

But improving the quality of the digital source is likely to be a lost labour of love. There is no such thing as a "slightly better stream". The stream is either correct or it is not; there really is no in between. And because digital hardware is as good as it is, the stream is effectively always correct.

I am aware that no memory is perfect, that there are observable errors in hardware, etc. But they are too rare to matter in this context. My chance of dying in a car accident today is millions of times higher than me encountering a bit error in some digital data stream in the next twelve months.
 
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