Does this sort of Yoshikazu Tanaka cleaver exist?

[chiffonodd]

I am sort of enamored with the grind on this Tanaka x Kyuzo nakiri, sold by protooling:

However, the nakiri is a paltry 167 in length and a downright risible 59 in height. These dimensions are highly displeasing to one currently afflicted with cleaver fever. I am unable to find a cleaver in this Hitohira series.

Has Y Tanaka ever worked with Kyuzo, or similar sharpener, to produce a full-size cleaver (220-ish x 110-ish) with this sort of grind philosophy? Doesn't have to be quite as absurd amazing as the above nakiri, but I'm looking for a touch of meat on the spine, tapering to a wicked hollow or otherwise quite thin BTE. Strongly prefer that it be constructed to work with a slim wa handle like this Togashi:

Also would love some distal taper, like this Sakai Kikumori Gukojyo chuka. Coincidentally, this one is also a Y Tanaka, but doesn't have the cross-sectional grind, and definitely isn't the tang/handle construction, that I'm looking for:

And if such a thing is simply too beautiful for this world, what custom makers might you tap for this project?

Thanks gents.

 

[KasumiJLA]

I'm summoning the one and only @MSicardCutlery !

 

[tostadas]

Hit up Evan at strata Portland to commission one. However, if you want strong distal taper, that's not common in Sakai knives from what I've seen. I have a convex custom y tanaka cleaver, but if you wanted a concave grind one, I'm sure it could be arranged

 

[blokey]

This kind of counts? Not Y Tanaka but Ichimonji white 2

 

[chiffonodd]

Hit up Evan at strata Portland to commission one.

Nice, thanks for the lead.

However, if you want strong distal taper, that's not common in Sakai knives from what I've seen.

I think you're definitely right about that. The philosophy seems to be that if the spine-to-edge taper is dialed in well enough, there's no need for a significantly thinner section towards the tip. Which is why I was kinda surprised when I saw the distal taper on that sakai kikumori. But now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it!

I have a convex custom y tanaka cleaver, but if you wanted a concave grind one, I'm sure it could be arranged

pics please! would love to see that custom YT, if you don't mind.

 

[chiffonodd]

This kind of counts? Not Y Tanaka but Ichimonji white 2
View attachment 299343

Definitely not bad, but doesn't quite make me like the TxK.

 

[tostadas]

pics please! would love to see that custom YT, if you don't mind.

Here are some older pics of mine
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/post-your-rectangles.58329/post-897095
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/my-favorite-color-is-blue-a-patina-thread.299/post-953209

I'm swapping out the handle again soon, so Ill be posting some new pics in the coming weeks

 

[chiffonodd]

Here are some older pics of mine
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/post-your-rectangles.58329/post-897095
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/my-favorite-color-is-blue-a-patina-thread.299/post-953209

I'm swapping out the handle again soon, so Ill be posting some new pics in the coming weeks

Beautiful finish in the first pic and even more beautiful patina in the second.

Got a proverbial choil shot or other grind reveal by chance? Gotta scratch the itch

 

[tostadas]

Beautiful finish in the first pic and even more beautiful patina in the second.

Got a proverbial choil shot or other grind reveal by chance? Gotta scratch the itch

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/show-your-newest-knife-buy.7655/post-876081

 

[kpham12]

I’ve owned like 8-10 cleavers made in Sakai and some can have very good taper and some have none at all. I have this old no name cleaver that tapers from 4mm at the handle to 1mm at the tip. Tang is tapered too. Ground quite thin, but still convex though.

Konosuke blue 2 cleaver tapers from about 4 mm to 1 mm as well. Mizuno has similarly strong taper, but more gradual. My Sakai Kikumori by Tanaka only goes from 3 mm to 1.2mm, but that’s just variance from knife to knife, some of them look to have thicker spines at the handle. Togashi cleaver is about the same taper as the Kikumori but a little thinner BTE grindwise.

This one is interesting, Sakai Takayuki cleaver forged by Suogo Yamatsuka. No significant taper, but this one and the no name vintage cleaver above were the thinnest BTE fresh from the box as far as I recall.

For most Sakai cleavers, the grind starts at the bottom third to the edge and above that, the area is either flat or slightly hollow/S-grind which helps reduce the weight and stuff climbing all the way up the cleaver as you cut. And the grind is usually a righty biased convex, but you can sometimes find one that’s pretty 50/50. The Kyuzo style hollow grind just seems like it might be a bit fragile with 450+ grams of weight behind it. Although some makers out of Echizen like Kurosaki and Saji make hollow ground cleavers, I just haven’t gotten to try one yet.

 

[refcast]

Ya mean with a grind like this?

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/white-2-iron-clad-chinese-cleaver.56478/

But yeah, distal taper on a cleaver ... Not common and hard to do


Yeah ask msicard

 

[chiffonodd]

Ya mean with a grind like this?

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/white-2-iron-clad-chinese-cleaver.56478/

But yeah, distal taper on a cleaver ... Not common and hard to do


Yeah ask msicard


View attachment 299368View attachment 299369

That one's definitely in the ballpark! Where'd you get that guy?

 

[refcast]

Yahoo auction jp, lol

@Hassanbensober owns it

 

[chiffonodd]

Yahoo auction jp, lol

@Hassanbensober owns it

It's amazing what you can find sometimes. Any idea about the *ahem* provenance?

 

[refcast]

Ah got nooo ideaaaaa lol

Lotsa old stock from Sakai floating around

 

[chiffonodd]

@Hassanbensober owns it

@Hassanbensober any comments on how that grind works for you? I'm sure it's an amazing cutter. Any issues with food release?

 

[refcast]

Oh I did try it before I sold it and it cut freaking amazingly haha, best pure cutter I ever used in my life, tied with an extra thin usuba

Release was fine; just the price of thin knives, there's sticking

 

[thebradleycrew]

@chiffonodd - also, the Migoto/Tanaka forged are pretty impressive full-sized cleavers and worth trying to find.
https://migotocutlery.com/collections/migoto/products/migoto-blue-1-chuka-6

 

[Hassanbensober]

@Hassanbensober any comments on how that grind works for you? I'm sure it's an amazing cutter. Any issues with food release?

Yes definitely still have it and use it. I keep it at work in my office. It definitely flies through food. I’ll break it out tomorrow and report back. Like most cleavers with this much surface area I expect some food release issues. Better than some others I have though from what I remember. I’ve been using a slightly smaller one lately so probably haven’t used this one in several months.
Old choil shot

 

[Hassanbensober]

.

 

[blokey]

I also quite like the Mizuno no.1 I recently got, but it is probably quite different from what you want tho… but it is an amazing cutter

 

[chiffonodd]

@chiffonodd - also, the Migoto/Tanaka forged are pretty impressive full-sized cleavers and worth trying to find.
https://migotocutlery.com/collections/migoto/products/migoto-blue-1-chuka-6

We might have a winner here

 

[Jville]

We might have a winner here

I thought the migoto blue 1 cleaver fit the script of what you are looking for. I'm considering letting mine go, PM me if interested.

 

[nhb22]

Not to turn this into a WTB post, but I’m selling a sakai cleaver with some taper. Forged by Yamatsuka

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/sakai-jikko-ginsan-chuka-cleaver-220mm-x-110mm.69914/

 

[chiffonodd]

Not to turn this into a WTB post, but I’m selling a sakai cleaver with some taper. Forged by Yamatsuka

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/sakai-jikko-ginsan-chuka-cleaver-220mm-x-110mm.69914/

Thanks for the heads up. Looks nice but I need a narrower wa handle instead of that western handle configuration.

 

[chiffonodd]

The Kyuzo style hollow grind just seems like it might be a bit fragile with 450+ grams of weight behind it.

It does seem like it could be living a bit dangerously. It's very seductive though

Although some makers out of Echizen like Kurosaki and Saji make hollow ground cleavers, I just haven’t gotten to try one yet.

I saw some kurosakis with that hollow grind, a bit shorter than a full size cleaver I think. Still looked like fantastic cutters.

PS this wouldn't be you would it? I don't know how many sakai chuka loving kphams there are out there

 

[tostadas]

Beautiful finish in the first pic and even more beautiful patina in the second.

Got a proverbial choil shot or other grind reveal by chance? Gotta scratch the itch

Here's some current photos of the y Tanaka. Just rehandled it. It sits at 456g

 

[chiffonodd]

Here's some current photos of the y Tanaka. Just rehandled it. It sits at 456g
View attachment 301820View attachment 301819View attachment 301821View attachment 301822

Gorgeous! That grain really pops, looks like it probably has some nice depth and movement to it as well. What are the dimensions of the cleaver? ~210x~90? What is your routine for maintaining the finish? Tell me everything lol.

 

[tostadas]

Gorgeous! That grain really pops, looks like it probably has some nice depth and movement to it as well. What are the dimensions of the cleaver? ~210x~90? What is your routine for maintaining the finish? Tell me everything lol.

Ya I specd I think 210x90 290g, and ended up with around 215x95 420g lol. But with this cleaver as it is now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I spent way more time than Id like to admit working on the finish. The initial work included spine and choil rounding and a full kasumi. There's like 3 full size gyutos worth of surface area on this beast to polish. Then just let the giant iron canvas take a patina.

With the change in handle, I decided to redo the whole polish starting with the core, then hit the kasumi again, forgetting how much was involved the first time. I still need to clean the blade off and maybe take some glamour shots of it one more time in perfect condition before letting the patina run wild.

 

[chiffonodd]

Ya I specd I think 210x90 290g, and ended up with around 215x95 420g lol. But with this cleaver as it is now, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I imagine the cutting power is quite formidable. Nice and thin BTE but some definite plow-through.

The initial work included spine and choil rounding and a full kasumi

Yeah that spine and choil look silky smooth. Could definitely tell the work that went into the finish, although I guess what I'm seeing here is more from the second round of work that you did after the rehandle.

giant iron canvas

love it

I still need to clean the blade off and maybe take some glamour shots of it one more time in perfect condition

Don't keep the people waiting, can't disappoint your public now