First Knife Recommendation (200$ budget)

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May 23, 2022
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Location
Israel
Hi Guys,

Due to a significant increase in the frequency of home cooking, I'm looking to upgrade my equipment, and that of course includes acquiring a proper knife (and a softer cutting board).
After some searching, I seem to have converged on JCK Deep Impact Gyuto as a good choice for a sub 200$, though I suppose you can provide me additional options.

LOCATION
Israel

KNIFE TYPE
Chef's Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Left handed, though I'm sort of ambidextrous, so I might be able to get away with using my right hand after some practice.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
I don't think that I have enough experience to form a preference.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Currently using 210mm, but maybe 240mm can also be nice. Same as above, I'm not familiar enough to form a preference.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Let's put 200$ as a soft cap, which I'd be willing to break if there's an option that punches way above its price point.


KNIFE USE
Home environment

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly vegetables, sometimes meat, but not for cutting bones or between joints.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Some generic stainless steel, nothing to write home about.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Not experienced enough to form a preference.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Same as above, not experienced enough. Whatever motion I'm using, I'm probably doing it wrong, since I haven't really learned any specific technique yet.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
No preference, my main reason for upgrading is to have a pro-ish knife instead of a low grade one.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
No preference.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
No preference.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Since I intend to keep the knife in the long run, I'll definitely need to familiarize myself with all the steps of properly maintaining a knife. But I suppose that ease of sharpening would be an important feature to someone inexperienced like me.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I suppose that longer edge retention would be a priority, which is why I didn't select stainless steel as a requirement.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
No.
Currently I do have bamboo, but I intend to replace it with a softer cutting board (help with selecting one would be appreciated), and never use it with this knife.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, though I'm probably doing it wrong.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
 
Below 200, I like to recommend kaeru or munetoshi from JNS. Kaeru is a good midweight stainless. Their white #2 version is my beater. Munetoshi is what I use when I want something heavier and with better food release. Both sharpen easily and I like thinning the munetoshi. Neither are lasers, both are forward balanced that benefit from pinch grip. Neither are so flat that you can't rock like a yoshi.
 
@rmrf

Thanks!

I'm currently using 210mm, and I never used anything bigger, so do you think it might be difficult to adjust to this size?

Also, not sure if it's ok to hijack this thread for another purpose, but if it is, I'd be glad for stones and cutting board recommendations.
Kind of confused with all the options.
 
@rmrf

Thanks!

I'm currently using 210mm, and I never used anything bigger, so do you think it might be difficult to adjust to this size?

Also, not sure if it's ok to hijack this thread for another purpose, but if it is, I'd be glad for stones and cutting board recommendations.
Kind of confused with all the options.
You could buy the 210 version if you'd like. They're a little cheaper so that's always nice.

In my experience, length is about what you use the knife for. I find it harder to use 210 for pull cuts. If you only push or chop, you might not feel as big of a need. I've heard 240 is better for rocking but I can't speak to that. If you use a pinch grip, 240s are a nice length because the pinch effectively shortens the knife. 240s are also generally easier to re-sell on this site compared to 210s if that is a consideration.

I used a beater dexter 210 stainless for a long time before switching to nicer 240s. My first two knives were a 210 ikazuchi and a 240 kaeru. The 240 was a lot easier and more fun for me to use but I also learned on 240 slicers so ymmv.

Regarding stones, I don't have much experience. I use shapton glass stones and am happy with them. I use the 500, 1000, a shapton pro 2000 and something 6000 ish in a yellow box that I'm pretty sure is doing nothing for me. Its better to get someone else's opinion on stones 😂. If you put a gun to my head, I'd recommend a glass 500, 1000, and something higher. I have a 4000 that I heard good things about but its still in its original package 🤣

Regarding cutting board, I'd get the largest wooden cutting board you can afford and fit in your kitchen. I have a cheap 20"x14" side grain maple cutting board. I think I paid like 20 bucks for it at a restaurant supply store but this was like 10 years ago. It works well enough for me. If I were to do it again, I'd get hasagawa soft cutting boards, but they are like 10x more expensive than side grain maple. End grain is the de facto standard, but the price always made me pause, which is stupid because I'd buy an extra 240 yoshi for the price of a great end grain wood cutting board. I only use my wood boards for vegetables or cooked meats; I have plastic ones for raw meat. Raw fish for sushi is the exception.
 
In addition to the excellent recommendations so far, I really like matsubara knives. They have a similar rustic feel to munetoshi, but generally thinner grind and significantly taller blade. The iron clad white #1 models fall right into your price range.
 
Welcome to the hardest part of the whole knife thing: figuring out what your preferences are. There isn't much of a shortcut to it. The only way to figure out whether you prefer 210 or 240... or a certain profile or weight range is basically to just try them for a while.
That being said; don't expect a fancy knife to really improve your cutting technique all that much. It will cut better and faster if you have technique, but it won't substitute for it.

Also, stainless steels don't necessarily have worse edge retention than carbons. Kinda depends on the steel, but there's plenty of stainless options that are just as good if not better than carbons in the edge retention department. Something like white steel, though carbon, is IMO rather underwhelming in the edge retention department. The main perk is that they tend to sharpen faster and easier.

Honestly you could always just go for something like a Takamura R2 Migaki. If you're new to this whole knife thing and you don't have a lot of 'alternatives' I'm not sure I'd go for an iron-clad knife like the Munetoshi. They're a bit more fussy.

Regarding cutting boards... again a lot of personal preference involved but it doesn't have to break the bank; as long as it's not something utterly horrenduous like stone or glass. Most here gravitate towards either end-grain wood, or the fancier rubber boards like Asahi / Hasegawa.
 
'one good knife' so I'd go for the versatility
I guess that's something I should read up on, but since you mentioned it, are there tasks that a carbon steel knife is less suited to perform than stainless?

That being said; don't expect a fancy knife to really improve your cutting technique all that much. It will cut better and faster if you have technique, but it won't substitute for it.
You're right of course, I'm still in the process of learning the basics, using this course, and applying the lessons with my current knife, which isn't really optimal.
So even if my biggest obstacle to slicing veggies more deftly, is the human factor, I can still see how a better knife would make it easier for me to get better results from the techniques displayed in the videos.

I don't know how far shipping and potential customs costs would push it over budget though.
I set the budget to 'knife only', I take into account that I'll have extra shipping and import costs. I must admit that this budget is sort of arbitrary, as I thought that I'm not really in a position to get the most of a top tier knife.
 
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You should take a look at Shiro Kamo kurochi AS (and probably blue2 as well, although I haven't used the blue2).
A very competent knife at a very entry level price.

It is ironclad and kurochi, but if that doesn't bother you, it's a great affordable entry to good knives.
 
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I guess that's something I should read up on, but since you mentioned it, are there tasks that a carbon steel knife is less suited to perform than stainless?
Most of all they're worse at being neglected. The amount of extra care they need isn't really more than stainless, but the main difference is that they need it straight away; you don't want to leave it dirty.
The main downside is that, unless you have a really stable patina, carbon / iron-clad knives can react to certain acidic ingredients, and for example discolor onions at the start. Although admittedly most of those issues tend to go away after you've built up a stable patina.
In my experience iron cladding is really the main culprit; it's noticably more reactive than either carbon monosteels or stainless-clad carbon.

But like I said if I was going for one knife I'd lean to it being at least semi-stainless.
You're right of course, I'm still in the process of learning the basics, using this course, and applying the lessons with my current knife, which isn't really optimal.
So even if my biggest obstacle to slicing veggies more deftly, is the human factor, I can still see how a better knife would make it easier for me to get better results from the techniques displayed in the videos.


I set the budget to 'knife only', I take into account that I'll have extra shipping and import costs. I must admit that this budget is sort of arbitrary, as I thought that I'm not really in a position to get the most of a top tier knife.
It's wise to limit the budget a bit for another reason; unawareness about your own preference. There's plenty of good and great knives around 200 bucks, and plenty of even better knives beyond that pricepoint, but if you don't have a solid idea of what you're looking for I don't really see much of a benefit of diving all the way into the deep end. There's diminishing returns, and at least it would make more sense to me to trial and error your preferences for a while first.

There's also a gateway knife thread floating around from a few months ago that might have a bunch of suggestions worth looking at.
 
Below 200, I like to recommend kaeru or munetoshi from JNS. Kaeru is a good midweight stainless. Their white #2 version is my beater. Munetoshi is what I use when I want something heavier and with better food release. Both sharpen easily and I like
Hi Guys,

Due to a significant increase in the frequency of home cooking, I'm looking to upgrade my equipment, and that of course includes acquiring a proper knife (and a softer cutting board).
After some searching, I seem to have converged on JCK Deep Impact Gyuto as a good choice for a sub 200$, though I suppose you can provide me additional options.

LOCATION
Israel

KNIFE TYPE
Chef's Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Left handed, though I'm sort of ambidextrous, so I might be able to get away with using my right hand after some practice.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
I don't think that I have enough experience to form a preference.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Currently using 210mm, but maybe 240mm can also be nice. Same as above, I'm not familiar enough to form a preference.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, though I'm probably doing it wrong.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your k

thinning the munetoshi. Neither are lasers, both are forward balanced that benefit from pinch grip. Neither are so flat that you can't rock like a yoshi
 
What you want to do is get yourself two Takayuki TUS's. One 210 and one 240. Should still come in under $200. Best knife for the price.
 
The amount of extra care they need isn't really more than stainless, but the main difference is that they need it straight away; you don't want to leave it dirty.
You mean something like wiping them dry between ingredients until a stable patina is developed?


Can it be used with both right and left hand? It would be nice to be able to use the knife for my standard cooking routine with my left hand, while also practicing with my right one, in order to figure out how ambidextrous I truly am, which would open up a lot of options, should I wish to upgrade in the future.

Assuming this one works for left hand as well, right now I'm trying to decide between it and a knife I found based on @HumbleHomeCook 's suggestion, which fits both hands:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tsassagy21.html
* Can't link yet, but here it is:
Tsunehisa AS Sakura Gyuto 210mm
 
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I am biased but Makoto Kurosaki Sakura SG2 would be my recommendation. Stainless laser that just goes through everything. IMO under 200$ you are going to get most bang for your buck buying a laser of some kind.
 
You mean something like wiping them dry between ingredients until a stable patina is developed?
With semi-stainless and even my monosteel carbons I never really bother doing any wiping during prep... I just make sure to clean them up when I'm done.
When I tried this with iron-clad was the first time I actually had to clean off some brown discoloration... Neither of them would probably fare well if you left them sitting dirty until cleanup after dinner.
Can it be used with both right and left hand? It would be nice to be able to use the knife for my standard cooking routine with my left hand, while also practicing with my right one, in order to figure out how ambidextrous I truly am, which would open up a lot of options, should I wish to upgrade in the future.

Assuming this one works for left hand as well, right now I'm trying to decide between it and a knife I found based on @HumbleHomeCook 's suggestion, which fits both hands:
https://www.**************.com/tsassagy21.html
* Can't link yet, but here it is:
Tsunehisa AS Sakura Gyuto 210mm
I'm not really a lefty so my opinion on this is dubious... but my gingas seemed quite symmetrical? I don't think it'd be a big deal to use them as a lefty.
I don't know how the ginga compares to the Tsunehisa so I can't say anything sensible there.

I agree with NotAddictedYet in that if you're shoping on the more budget end of the spectrum a laser is probably the best bet, since at least it'll have good cutting performnace out of the box... The ginga is a good example of this, but I'm sure there are others (Takamura R2 Migaki is another well-known one).
 
Oh boy, welcome, first of all!

Length: since you already have a 210, I’d probably grab a 240 to see which length you prefer. I have mostly 240-250 knives, only a few in the 210 range. I like both lengths, but if I could only keep one length it would be 240, more versatile for me… But that also depends on the size of your kitchen and the size of your board. The smaller kitchen and board, the smaller the knife should be…

Knife addicts like ourselves, we tend to group knives into types such as laser, midweight and workhorses. In reality, we cannot even find a consensus what is what, but here you go. It always is a question of preference. I don’t like lasers very much, midweights are fine, I absolutely love heavier workhorses. I am afraid you need to find out what your preferences are! BST is a great place to start. You can always buy and sell a knife. Standard recommendations are Takamura Chromax or R2 Western (laser) gyutos (they only come in 210 length and Western handle), and Wakui, Munetoshi or Kaeru wa-gyutos (Kaeru offers a workhorse type, too). Some of them come either with iron or stainless clad. Your choice! There’s also some knives on JCK which are worth a look (Deep Impact, Blue Moon or Blue Clouds).

The Misono Swedish knives which have already been recommended are very nice but they are asymmetrical (~70/30). They do have perfect fit and finish though. I didn’t find them very reactive, they’re monosteel after all. Loved mine!

JKI offers a Suien monosteel Gyuto in B#2, which is a very nice knife, too!
 
Oh boy, welcome, first of all!
Thank you!

Length: since you already have a 210, I’d probably grab a 240 to see which length you prefer. I have mostly 240-250 knives, only a few in the 210 range. I like both lengths, but if I could only keep one length it would be 240, more versatile for me… But that also depends on the size of your kitchen and the size of your board. The smaller kitchen and board, the smaller the knife should be…
My kitchen is relatively small, but I do have a completely empty counter area that is 92x100cm, which is open from 3 sides. Not sure though where that stands with regards to comfortably using a 240mm knife.

Knife addicts like ourselves, we tend to group knives into types such as laser, midweight and workhorses. In reality, we cannot even find a consensus what is what, but here you go. It always is a question of preference. I don’t like lasers very much, midweights are fine, I absolutely love heavier workhorses. I am afraid you need to find out what your preferences are! BST is a great place to start. You can always buy and sell a knife. Standard recommendations are Takamura Chromax or R2 Western (laser) gyutos (they only come in 210 length and Western handle), and Wakui, Munetoshi or Kaeru wa-gyutos (Kaeru offers a workhorse type, too). Some of them come either with iron or stainless clad. Your choice! There’s also some knives on JCK which are worth a look (Deep Impact, Blue Moon or Blue Clouds).
I think I can already see how I'd prefer a knife with a little more 'substance', with less food sticking to it, but the issue is that most, if not all of the non-laser Japanese knives I looked at, are limited to right or (rarely) left hand orientation. As mentioned above, having one that fits both will allow me to use it for my regular kitchen work with my left, and also practice on my right, which will hopefully remove my limitation when I'm looking for another knife in the future.
BST, would've been a great option, but I think that my location makes it difficult with regards to shipping costs.

JKI offers a Suien monosteel Gyuto in B#2, which is a very nice knife, too!
Looks good, I assume you're suggesting it as a symmetrical non-laser? If so, it seems like a great option.
 
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Almost all Japanese knives are assymetric, usually biased for a right hander. The thinner the knife, the less asymmetric they are, to the point where lasers are not very asymmetric at all.

Read @Kippington's excellent thread "a basic explanation of assymetry" for an explanation about why.

So if you want an ambidextrous knife, look for a very thin knife.
 
You mean something like wiping them dry between ingredients until a stable patina is developed?



Can it be used with both right and left hand? It would be nice to be able to use the knife for my standard cooking routine with my left hand, while also practicing with my right one, in order to figure out how ambidextrous I truly am, which would open up a lot of options, should I wish to upgrade in the future.

Assuming this one works for left hand as well, right now I'm trying to decide between it and a knife I found based on @HumbleHomeCook 's suggestion, which fits both hands:
https://www.**************.com/tsassagy21.html
* Can't link yet, but here it is:
Tsunehisa AS Sakura Gyuto 210mm

The broken link isn't your fault. There's a long history, but KKF doesn't allow links to CKTG.
 
i would probably go with mono steel like Swedish carbon misono(dargon😁) or masahiro VC. another great affordable makers could be shigeki tanaka, gihei, matsubara, ashi. should check with JCK or chubo, both have fairly cheap international shipping to israel.
 
Thanks for the help everyone!

To sum things up, currently the 3 main options I'm considering are:
Suien 210/ 240mm VC Gyuto
Tsunehisa AS Kurouchi Gyuto 210/240mm
Ashi Hamono Ginga Swedish Stainless Steel Gyuto 210/240mm

With some advantage to the Suien, due to it being thicker and heavier, and from what i read, not a very reactive carbon. Any additional input would be welcome, and help me reach a decision.

I'd also like some help with choosing whetstones, if it's ok to ask here, instead of opening another thread:
What grit grades should I get?
Ans also, is it essential to buy something like JNS stones, or are there cheaper options that provide the same result?
 
Splash and go stones are a good place to start. Shapton Pro and Glass are popular. 1k or 2k are good starts.

A King NEO 800 comes on a base and would be a good starter.

Do invest in a good diamond flattening stone like the Atoma 140. It will reward you in the long run.
 
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