Flawless Denka vs kiyoshi kato gyuto

[shinyunggyun]

For those of you who have used both a really good Denka and a kato workhorse/std, what do you think is the better performer?

I have used both myself, and I find that I like my denka better.

 

[Barmoley]

Wrong thread. Should be here The high drama thread

 

[Chicagohawkie]

I’ll take the one made by the master who’s been making knives for 50 - 60 years.

 

[Dan-]

I’ll take the one made by the master who’s been making knives for 50 - 60 years.

So, Shinichi?

 

[Chicagohawkie]

kioshi

 

[Heckel7302]

So, Shinichi?

You're thinking of Toyama.

 

[superworrier]

Is flawless Denka an oxymoron?

 

[Heckel7302]

Is there such a thing as a flawless Denka? Aren't the flaws half the fun of TF knives?

Edit: @superworrier Jinx!

 

[More_Gyutos]

Is flawless Denka an oxymoron?

Yes.

Oink. Oink.

 

[captaincaed]

They're fairly different knives. I would have trouble comparing them. What invited the comparison?

 

[shinyunggyun]

They're fairly different knives. I would have trouble comparing them. What invited the comparison?

Oh yes. They are different. But I never understood the reason for the ridiculously high prices that kato knives go for. I finally was able to try one, and while I was blown away, I have to say that I still prefer my denkas over this. And 240mm denkas don’t go for over $1000.

 

[captaincaed]

I tried a Kato once on a PA, and I think it was "worked on" before I received it because it cut like a turd. Would like to try a better copy.

As far as price... Not saying you have to but you can...
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=87904

 

[superworrier]

Oh yes. They are different. But I never understood the reason for the ridiculously high prices that kato knives go for. I finally was able to try one, and while I was blown away, I have to say that I still prefer my denkas over this. And 240mm denkas don’t go for over $1000.

The price is high because of scarcity and the mythos/methods, just like Shig. Even Denka prices are crazy though, especially given the QC.

 

[jedy617]

Supply vs demand. My hatsukokoro komorebei for $290 will cut better than my Kato. I accepted the fact that the Kato is a $3-$400 quality knife in terms of actual material worth. I just like the back story of the maker and the fact it's all done by hand. Honestly I think for just cutting you could get a takamura r2 and never need anything else.

 

[Pie]

I’m curious about Kato. I don’t think I have the budget to buy one out of the blue but I have to imagine the steel is just legendary.

In terms of TF, geometry can be adjusted, steel cannot. Is his AS really worth 3x that of hitachi AS? Ehhhhhh… it’s pretty damn good but idk..

 

[jedy617]

Kato doesn't do AS. Usually blue 2, and now some old stock white 1 which is supposed to be "more pure and more carbon"

 

[Pie]

Kato doesn't do AS. Usually blue 2, and now some old stock white 1 which is supposed to be "more pure and more carbon"

Even more mysticalityness

 

[Chicagohawkie]

All of Katos STD line up to a few years ago we’re done in white paper #2 Nothing special. katos have been consistent through the years with few flaws or a whole lot of variation. same with shig knives. Very well executed.

 

[kpham12]

I tried a Kato once on a PA, and I think it was "worked on" before I received it because it cut like a turd. Would like to try a better copy.

As far as price... Not saying you have to but you can...
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=87904

I read through the more recent Kato Passaround thread and the older one from years back and they both had the same problem. After the first handful of participants tested and sharpened it, the Kato started to seem really thick BTE. I like using thicker spine, full convex knives but even when they’re really thin right BTE, they fatten up pretty quickly so after a few sharpenings, you get a noticeable drop off in performance. Those testing videos you made were really helpful though.

 

[labor of love]

Yeah, I’ve been loving my denka that I bought a month ago, but in terms of cutting kato std is one of the greatest IMO.

 

[Cliff]

I thought the specialness of Kato came from the grind rather than special steel.

 

[Dan-]

I feel like this thread is setting the future value of pre-2022 TF.

 

[lemeneid]

Denka > Kato Std > Kato Wh = Maboroshi

 

[labor of love]

Denka > Kato Std > Kato Wh = Maboroshi

=Maboroshi?

Where does Morihei Hisamoto fit into this?

 

[blokey]

=Maboroshi?

Where does Morihei Hisamoto fit into this?

Aren't they more close to Nashiji in terms of grind?

 

[shinyunggyun]

Assuming supply and demand isn’t an issue, and blacksmith reputation is irrelevant, how much do you think a kato std or “very good” Denka should be worth?

 

[captaincaed]

Assuming an infinitely long lever with perfect stiffness and no friction, I can move the universe.

Also, the chicken in this problem is a perfect sphere.

 

[Barmoley]

Assuming supply and demand isn’t an issue, and blacksmith reputation is irrelevant, how much do you think a kato std or “very good” Denka should be worth?

That's an impossible and really nonsensical question to try to answer. Knife price is not independent of reality, so there is no correct value.

 

[labor of love]

Assuming supply and demand isn’t an issue, and blacksmith reputation is irrelevant, how much do you think a kato std or “very good” Denka should be worth?

My honest answer is $1250 give or take for kato std and $800 for perfect denka.

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

My honest answer is $1250 give or take for kato std and $800 for perfect denka.

I'd say 400$ for Kato WH.
No idea about denka as I'm not interested in wabi sabi stuff

Apart from okeish belt finish and questionable kanji I think Kato WH are perfect. Perfect distal taper, paper thin tip, thick spine, huge tang. A like all of that. But the thing is... at 400$ level I can get a custom knife with same geometry but in fancy steel. Prices might be very different in other countries, but here we are entering a rainbow ponies land with a 400$ entry ticket.