Good affordable set for all around sharpening both kitchen knife and tools?

[Fedusa]

I've been sharpening my own knives for a number of years but am looking to transition to a system on a practical budget for tool sharpening as well.

Primary uses will be to sharpen Japanese woodworking tools, Japanese carbon kitchen knives as well as occasional pocket knife and straight razor sharpening.

Am currently doing it all on a 1000/8000 Japanese synthetic but also had a Shapton 4 stone glass set which I stupidly sold before getting into tools partly because it didn't give much feedback and, despite what I've heard, it felt slow. Just overall didn't really like the feel of the Shapton glass set.

Currently have .1 Micron CBN spray + felt pad which I use to finish and has gotten me decent results.

I'm likely planning to get 2 grits and a lapping plate but depending on cost, may add an additional whether that be an even finer grit or a natural stone.

• The Kitayama, Arashiyama and Gisuke diamond plate was recommended for tools and they're priced right but the JNS synthetics look enticing as well and I'm also curious about natural stones.
• How does the Gisuke compare to the Atoma?
• Any other comparable stones I should be looking at?
• What is the main purpose of natural stones and would they be better situated as a finishing grit?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If anyone knows what's best for Japanese tools, it's @refcast.

 

[inferno]

most people dont need to o above 3-4k for knives. some even stop at 1k.
if you really need to do razors too you will need some 10k plus stone for that.

i'd say a coarse stone is needed, 2-500 somewhere. shapton 220 pro/glass, glass 500 etc. those are good

then you probably want a good medium grit stone. 1-2k. again glass/pro/naniwa pro 800/2k.

then some kind of finisher. 3-12k depending on where you want to finish. lot of options.

the diamond stones recommended are usually dmt and atomas. the atomas are worthless for knives so those would be for flattening only.
the dmt C 325 is usable for knives, but not very good for flattening. the dmt 325 (my one at least) can produce a usable edge on a razor.
sounds stupid i know but it actually works.

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pro 220/dmt C, naniwa 800 and 2 or 3k would work. (naniwas are finer than stated grit)
shapton pro 220, pro 1k, glass 3 or 4k. shapton pro1k is more like an 800.
glass 500, glass 3 or 4k. or naniwa 2/3k
glass 500, shapton pro 2k.
etc etc, there is a lot of stones to choose from here.

for razors i suggest the shapton pro 12k or the naniwa superstone 12k.
i have tried maybe 10 different high grit stones and those 2 are the best for razors imo.

if you need some 6-8k stone the gray glass hc 6k is good. also the 8k pro is good.

 

[refcast]

Ah for Japanese tools, the regular stones are fine. The flatness tradeoffs are still the same as for kitchen knives. Tools really benefit from a higher grit because of the reduced drag though wood.

 

[Fedusa]

Thanks @refcast! Do you have any recommended stones that won't blow out a budget and fairly easy to obtain?

@inferno, It seems you tend to like the Shaptons, any particular reason for that?

Has anyone used the JNS Synthetic Matukusuyama stones and can comment how they'd compare to the Naniwas or the Kitayama/Arashiyamas?

 

[inferno]

@inferno, It seems you tend to like the Shaptons, any particular reason for that?

they are fairly cheap, good and easy to use. some of the shaptons is about as good as it gets imo.
like 1k and 2k pro. and 3k and 4k glass, and the 500glass.

 

[refcast]

There are people who know synths more than me lol. @SolidSnake03 comes to mind. But it depends. If you're doing geometry repair work or just maintaining or if you need to set up a new tool that's dull or so on.

I like the cerax 1000 a lot and the king 1200 deluxe is good but a little slow. I like the cerax more. I've had the gesshin 1000 which is more porous and faster cutting and a bit softer than the cerax 1000. I like the stone feel a lot and I guess it feels better in some ways but the cerax 1000 is cheaper and works well enough that I don't mind the difference. The shapton pro 1000 is good but too hard overall for me, and I like being able to flatten my stones more easily I gusss. The granite flat and SIC 80 grit or so powder are essential for heavy flattening of stones.

I'd get a 3000 or 6000 grit synth. I'd rather buy a granite plate and sic powder rather than an atoma, owning both. I use the granite plate combo a lot more, since the atoma eventually loses its cutting speed.

And really! It depends on what you want to do. If you get old tools or ones that need repair work, you need a coarse stone, and again I like the cerax 320 a lot for it. The edge setting and thinning are separate things and flatness is ABSOLUTE for edge setting or thinning close to the edge for tools, to not get rounded edge profiles that reduce the functionality of the tool (for the tool to make straight lines).

So cerax 1000, any good soaking 3000-6000 grit. (Splash and go will feel worse and cut a bit slower so I personally wouldn't recommend it). The diamond spray should be ok so no absolute need for a jnat.

So, if you want to do repair or modification work, get a coarse stone. If you want a sharper edge or better finish, get a jnat. Which you get in addition to your core 1k and 3k, or 1k and 6k is up to you. So that, generally

 

[inferno]

i only suggested splash and go stones btw. because i like that they dry in 10 minutes and then you can put them away.

i have owned several soakers though that were good.

jns 1k.
naniwa hibiki 1 and 3k. (vitrified)
fine-tools juuma (all grits, these are also vitrified)
imanishi bester pink 2k (from fine-tools.de) also vitrified.
king hyper 1k hard.
missarka ~800 and 3-4k. also vitrified.
suehiro ouka/3k cerax (same stone)
suehiro traditional/cerax 8k
suehiro trad 8k green in SiC.

except from the missarkas these were all good if you like soakers.

the vitrified ones were all pretty much similar. i can't tell any difference between them. rock hard, low wear, very fast stones, that takes a week to dry. the juumas have cool colors. and then red hibiki looks really nice when wet. the green suehiro 8k is a killer high grit. makes a very good kasumi. VERY good...

 

[Fedusa]

Do you put something on the granite plate to use SIC or SIC straight on? Seems like the SIC will flatten both stone and plate if used that way.

The stones will mostly for general maintenance and some setting up of new/used tools. I suppose when time comes for geometry repair work, I'll splash out for some new stones but just wanted to go with the proper setup from the get-go.

I think soakers would make sense since they can live in the shop area, I mean they'd take space with or without water anyway.

Lots of info to go on, thanks!