Hard-base wootz blade

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cutler81

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Generally it is known that wootz is a steel with a soft base and hard carbides. But what is "hard-base" or "hard-matrix" wootz?
Anyone knows something about it or has such a knife?
 
Given that wootz is a low-alloy ultra-high carbon (UHC) steel, calling something where the matrix is something other than low-alloy steel would be silly. Which would restrict non-silly-named hard-matrix wootz to wootz that has been quenched (historically, wootz was often air-cooled). The Roselli UHC knives are supposed to be 66-69HRC, so I'd happily call them hard-matrix wootz.

But who knows what other people might mean by it.
 
I suppose it may be about percent of carbides... E.g. 1,5%, 0,5 % or so. I am not sure but noticed that there are some differences in wootz blades, so maybe this is the point?
 
TimoNieminen said:
The Roselli UHC knives are supposed to be 66-69HRC, so I'd happily call them hard-matrix wootz.
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I had a roselli chef 8", Steel was insane but grind was horrid. It was very hard, very acute but not delicate, but it was very difficult on the stones.
It was an uneven Scandinavian grind that steered like crazy. I probably could fix it now but at the time i was much newer to sharpening, even brought it to knifewear to fix. they used the circular spinning stone to make it way worse. The edge did not line up with the middle of the steel at all. Choil shot, the edge was left, view from the tip edge was to the right, aint nobody got time for that. I returned it with my complaints, luckily a butcher bought it and loves it. It was a good lesson to stay away from makers that dont specialize in cooking knives.
 
cutler81 said:
I suppose it may be about percent of carbides... E.g. 1,5%, 0,5 % or so. I am not sure but noticed that there are some differences in wootz blades, so maybe this is the point?
Click to expand...

so I think I am right - it is about carbon content... I've read a few articles, seems like carbon content less than 0,8% is soft matrix wootz and ca. 1-1,5% is hard matrix wootz (or something like that...).
But I still wonder if there is any way to see the difference between both wootz types - how to check if it is soft wootz blade or hard wootz blade? hmmm...
 
LucasFur said:
I had a roselli chef 8", Steel was insane but grind was horrid. It was very hard, very acute but not delicate, but it was very difficult on the stones.
It was an uneven Scandinavian grind that steered like crazy. I probably could fix it now but at the time i was much newer to sharpening, even brought it to knifewear to fix. they used the circular spinning stone to make it way worse. The edge did not line up with the middle of the steel at all. Choil shot, the edge was left, view from the tip edge was to the right, aint nobody got time for that. I returned it with my complaints, luckily a butcher bought it and loves it. It was a good lesson to stay away from makers that dont specialize in cooking knives.
Click to expand...

Anyway how long the knife was sharp? When did you decide to sharpen it for the first time (and as I assume the last :)) ?
 
cutler81 said:
Anyway how long the knife was sharp? When did you decide to sharpen it for the first time (and as I assume the last :)) ?
Click to expand...

Honestly the steering issue was so bad and pissed me off so much that i never was able to make it dull from use.
the guy at hatcher and crain did do some crazy edge tests and it was still pretty sharp though. from memory, he laid the knife edge down on a piece of wood, then basically did what i can only describe as snow-angels in the wood to make saw dust. If you can imagine a hatchet wrench motion, left and right, edge down into wood. Im still surprised there was no rolling, or chipping. But i have no remorse returning it for store credit, and getting the sabatier 200 series, which is by all means a very good knife.
 
I just ordered a Roselli chef knife because I was curious about the steel, I assume to fix it I should use my grinder or diamond plates when I get it??
 
gic said:
I just ordered a Roselli chef knife because I was curious about the steel, I assume to fix it I should use my grinder or diamond plates when I get it??
Click to expand...

Yes, probably you will need diamond plate; I wonder what is exact carbon content in your Roselli chef's knife - could you share this info...? An which one did you order, 210 cm?
 
The original wootz blades were quenched slower to produce pealite matrix instead of martensite. Modern wootz blades are quenched in water or fast quench oil to produce a much harder blade. The old ones were hardened to the high 40’s, modern ones to the high 60’s.

Some modern wootz is just high carbon steel rolled at low temps to produce banding.

Hoss
 
Yea I ordered the 210, since I didn't have to pay VAT, it wasn't that bad a deal. I'm hoping I can fix it on my grinder, it's a lot faster than even Atoma plates :). I have absolutely no idea how to measure carbon but it was one of their ultra high carbon knives. I'll check the HRC with my files and report!
 
cutler81 said:
An which one did you order, 210 cm?
Click to expand...

210cm! Now that must be one hell of a kitchen knife! Got a world size record pumpkin to dice?

In all seriousness I look forward to your experience with the Roselli too
 
gic said:
Yea I ordered the 210, since I didn't have to pay VAT, it wasn't that bad a deal. I'm hoping I can fix it on my grinder, it's a lot faster than even Atoma plates :). I have absolutely no idea how to measure carbon but it was one of their ultra high carbon knives. I'll check the HRC with my files and report!
Click to expand...

Wondering if you already have your knife...? :)
 
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