Having a stereo with "unlimited" dynamic range. yeah

Discussion in 'The Off Topic Room' started by inferno, Dec 8, 2018.

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  1. Dec 8, 2018 #1

    inferno

    inferno

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    yeah thats what I would like. i guess we have some members here that have lots of serious dough, and most likely those people have these stereo systems. so.

    I just want to know how it feels to have a stereo like this.

    please tell.

    my own one seems to top out at 115 db or so. just when its starting to get interesting imo.

    yeah no sh1t when i'm sober 95db seems loud. but when drunk. even at my max vol its not enough.

    I think i have found my bottleneck though, my monitors. they seem to limit at like 112 or so. like at half the volume the bass system can handle if even that. I'm fairly certain my bass system will handle 120. if calculations are correct. and they most likely are. my side boxes will only handle 105 9db in reality?? who knows. but its weak **** imo

    mysterious thats what it is.
     
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  2. Dec 8, 2018 #2

    inferno

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    like this for instance
     
  3. Dec 8, 2018 #3

    inferno

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    also



    you got that medicine i need..
    fame. liqour. love. give it to me slowly...
     
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  4. Dec 8, 2018 #4

    WildBoar

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    115 db measured how far from the speakers? Within a couple feet in front of a speaker, or 7-10 feet back?

    Of course 115 db is definitely in the range to screw up your hearing later in life. But if you are okay with that, I suggest you seek out some highly efficient speakers (90+). And you'll need some muscle to drive them to those levels -- no 35 wpc integrates. This can run into $$$, so I suggest looking at 'professional' gear vs 'audiophile' gear.

    And also keep in mind that a system with lower noise doesn't need to reach the same overall sound level as a noisier system to give you the same db swings between quiet and loud passages.

    Also, room size will impact this -- easier to get high SPLs in a small room than in a large one.
     
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  5. Dec 8, 2018 #5

    mille162

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    I’ve got a Class A amp rated at 452 watts (Mcintosh mc452), feeding Egglestonworks Rosa Towers (87 db efficiency, -3db 30 Hz - 24k Hz), and just got rid of my Wilson W/P 7’s (93 db efficiency, -3db @ 21 Hz - 21k Hz).

    Sitting about 8’ away from speakers, amp at 1/3 - 1/2 power, I typically measure 89-90 db on a handheld meter. This is “loud enough” to comfortably listen to but not hurt your ears. The Rosa’s x-over at 30Hz is perfect in that you can just start to feel the bass in your dangling foot but can’t feel it in the floor. I’m toying with the idea of adding a sub with independent controls to color in the slightest bit of bass. The W/P’s had way too much bass and would punch your chest at 85 db’s...90+ was uncomfortable.

    I suppose I could turn up the amp and get a higher db reading where I’m sitting but there really is no need to, even with much larger speakers and amps (1200w mono blocks, Egglestonworks Andra’s) in the same room or something extreme like the Infinity IRS V (google search and read about it and look at it’s size), you aren’t trying to get “louder”, you’re just playing with the overall soundstage.

    The video of Marty McFly cranking up the stereo and blowing himself away in the opening scenes of Back to the Future is not an enjoyable audio experience lol. ACCURATELY reproducing sound, creating a wide and distinguishable soundstage, and lowering the soundfloor while eliminating vibration and interference are what you pay extra money for in your equipment. A single pair of my current interconnects costs more than my first 3 stereo’s combined, and it was worth it to make my TT sound even better, not to make the system go louder.

    Inferno, what model speakers and what model amp are you using? What are the approximate dimensions of your room?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  6. Dec 8, 2018 #6

    Kippington

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    Damn, that's disgustingly specific.
    It makes a lot of sense though. Great speakers sound incredible in a room with good acoustics, and great headphones never hit home in the same way, no matter how clear they are. They just cant transfer that clarity into the space around you accurately, unless the recording has good reverb in it already.
    You've made me realise why I like either really echoy, or really clear tracks for referencing sound quality...
     
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  7. Dec 8, 2018 #7

    playero

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    Wow that is really a nice set up.

    I have a smaller Mcintosh with electrovoice and 901 and you cannot go higher than a couple of dbs. but it sounds amazing
     
  8. Dec 9, 2018 #8

    gman

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    i second the notion that isolation and room treatment are super important. there comes a point where sinking more money into amplification and speakers wont help at all unless your room can handle it.

    for the best sound possible you need:

    1) high-quality pre-amp (for analog sources) or high quality DAC (for digital sources). don't underestimate the importance of a really good (possibly standalone) digital clock to reduce jitter. a top quality 48 khz DAC will easily outperform a cheap 96 or 192 khz DAC.

    2) amplifiers and speakers that are well matched. i prefer self powered studio monitors for this reason.

    3) balanced audio cables. don't waste your money on gold plated connectors or fancy shielding. even the cheapest 3 wire balanced 1/4" or xlr cables will automatically reject interference by phase cancellation.

    4) proper grounding of everything analog. a nasty 60 hz ground loop hum will screw up your bass to no end. a good power conditioner can help here too because each of the (usually 8) plugs is isolated from the rest.

    5) vibration isolation. suspending your speakers or mounting them on acoustic foam will get you huge bang for your buck. when i put my sub on an auralex bass riser i could literally turn it up twice as loud before my windows started rattling.

    6) proper speaker placement. first, don't put your speakers too close to the wall. if early reflections are far enough from the direct sound, your ear can separate them. if they are too close together, they become muddy. measure very precisely and make sure both speakers are equal distance from the wall to eliminate phase problems.

    7) acoustic treatment. small rooms may need diffusers to open up the sound, and large rooms will need a lot of absorption to prevent echo. most of the time you wont need full coverage, just strategic placement. you can hire people to do this, or do it yourself with software and a microphone. the result you are looking for is to eliminate nodes and anti-nodes, essentially spots in the room where sound either doubles up or cancels itself out. rooms with power of 2 dimensions are particularly difficult to tame, eg a 16' by 32' room with an 8' ceiling will sound like absolute crap, no matter what you do.
     
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  9. Dec 10, 2018 #9

    ThinMan

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    Let’s not forget the importance of a good source.
     
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  10. Dec 10, 2018 #10

    panda

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    He just wants to live experience the old maxell tape commercial from the 90's.
     
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  11. Dec 10, 2018 #11

    gman

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    in that case he needs to add a le cobusier chair to the shopping list
     
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  12. Dec 10, 2018 #12

    WildBoar

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    You guys are focusing on sound quality, but Inferno really just cares about overall SPLs. He needs a setup meant for a dance club, etc.

    And a large supply of hearing aid batteries, safely stowed away for 10 years from now :D
     
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  13. Dec 10, 2018 #13

    LostHighway

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    Per WildBoar how are you measuring the SPL levels? Averaged or peak? With what? How far from the speakers and in what kind of room?
    115 dB averaged at the listening position is freaking loud and very much of that WILL damage your hearing in anything other than very short doses. I recommend living alone in the country with stone or concrete walls and floor and distant neighbors. Rigid, high mass, construction actually does help with achieving insane SPLs plus it might reduce your ambient noise floor and remoteness avoids unpleasant interactions with neighbors or the police. You probably need horns or compression drivers (at least for the mids and highs) with an efficiency of at least 98dB. A very few direct radiator systems can get to to those levels but it is an inefficient way of doing so, you usually need a huge total radiating area. You'll also need an amp (or amps) with a robust power supply and at least 100 wpc.
    Most people with exotic audio systems are aiming toward accuracy rather than volume. I used to sell high end audio and very, very, few of our clients listened at averaged levels much above 86 dB and the range of approximately 74 - 84 dB was probably more typical.
     
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  14. Dec 10, 2018 #14

    Nemo

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    FWIW, my chainsaw makes 115 dB (at 1m) amd I never use it without hearing protection.
     
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  15. Dec 10, 2018 #15

    parbaked

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    And you can't carve the roast in front of your guests...
     
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  16. Dec 10, 2018 #16

    Nemo

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    Definitely not as elegant as a nice suji...
     
  17. Dec 10, 2018 #17

    Mucho Bocho

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    Love this comment, perhaps the damage has already been done thus the request for 115 dB of sound pressure. FWIW, Military jet aircraft take-off from aircraft carrier with afterburner at 50 ft (130 dB).

    Does he he think he's Robin Dalman. ;-)
     
  18. Dec 10, 2018 #18

    panda

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    I bet.my exhaust hits 115db when I'm @ 9k rpm
     
  19. Dec 10, 2018 #19

    Nemo

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    ...but on reflection, maybe a little more dramatic...
     
  20. Dec 10, 2018 #20

    mille162

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    So, slight correction to my post above, I typically listen to my Rosa’s at 79-80 db’s (peak reading), not 89-90. I cranked the volume this evening and got a 101db reading. It’s loud. It’s starting to be painful loud and after only 1/4 of a song, playing with volume and trying to get these pics, my ears are ringing 15 min later as I type this.

    Amp at 3/4 max output on amp’s meter as well as preamp’s meter. Im afraid to turn it up to 11 and to try and get the amp’s anti-clipping protection to kick-in. Also keep in mind, needles are on hold setting, so even though it hits 3/4, it’s actually mostly at about 1/2 reading. All taken at my seated position 8.5” away (my ears are actually about 9.5” away as reader is at end of my knee while seated).

    IMG_3666.jpg
    I turned off “hold” so you can see where the needle is live at most of the song:
    IMG_3670.jpg

    My “comfortable” everyday listening
    IMG_3668.jpg

    This is the point where I have to raise my voice to speak over the music with effort, this is where I feel it starts to become “loud” and where the level of enjoyment starts to diminish. “Overwhelming” is how my girl describes it.
    IMG_3665.jpg

    I can’t imagine anyone wanting above 100db’s ever. After 90db’s you’re wasting money on quality equipment since you can’t hear the nuances of the various equipment choices you made. The addicting part of this hobby is chasing “better” sound not “louder”.

    Btw, the rest of the system has significant thought, planning, trying out/replacing with other components: power cords, power conditioner, wall outlets, interconnects, rack system and vibration isolation, heat control and placement of components, room humidity and static, speaker placement (have to have 100+ hours for “placement” playing around by itself!)...and that’s before I get into the nuances of my main source, the record player/cartridge/arm/platter/headshell options!

    For analog: custom built player with Ortofon Quintet black cartridge, modified stock arm/wiring, Ortofon wooden headshell, custom Transparent RCA output

    For radio: Mcintosh MR78 & MR74 tuners completely restored by Terry Dewick, Magnum Dynalab st2 antennae (trying to decide which I’m keeping)

    For digital: Astell&Kern ak380 with docking station & balanced outputs. Mostly FLAC and DSD files. Dual DAC, twin chips, capable of 32-bit/384kHz sampling.
     
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  21. Dec 10, 2018 #21

    WildBoar

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    Nuances? I am guessing you did not listen to any of the recordings he posted. Thump thump thump :D

    (hey, we all have different tastes. I'm still stuck in album rock, and hope to remain so until I'm dead and buried)
     
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  22. Jan 1, 2019 #22

    tedg

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    We all have preferences, I prefer to go without hearing aids later in life.
     

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