Help choosing workhorse knife (Questionaire filled out)

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Tony

Active Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2017
Messages
35
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25
LOCATION
What country are you in?
Canada



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's Knife


Are you right or left handed?
Right Handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
8 inch

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$500 CAD total, to my door



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing meats and vegetables

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I'm looking for a knife to replace my workhorse knives.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push Cut and Slicing

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Sharper edge, edge retention, well balanced, aesthetically pleasing

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I would prefer a Damascus blade, I like the octagonal, dark wood handles

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Well balanced

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I would appreciate being able to use the knife out of the box, smoother push cutting

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
It would be nice if I could get through a workday without sharpening. Currently, I'm cutting 80kg of chicken at a time

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
I will be buying a Walnut Boardsmith cutting board to go with this knife

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, but very basic knowledge

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I'm looking for a new workhorse knife
 
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With edge retention in mind - I would consider that Gengetsu from BST, or Kochi from Jon, Masashi from Knifewear or Watanabe/Toyama second hand. Maybe Yoshikane SKD, though they are too lightweight to be considered a workhorse in my book.
 
With edge retention in mind - I would consider that Gengetsu from BST, or Kochi from Jon, Masashi from Knifewear or Watanabe/Toyama second hand. Maybe Yoshikane SKD, though they are too lightweight to be considered a workhorse in my book.
All are good suggestions.

I suspect that the weight of the Yoshis vary. Mine (a SKD hammered) is definitely a workhorse and much thicker than my (2nd gen) Gengetsu. I haven't handled a 1st Gen Gengetsu (so take what I say with a grain of salt) but I understand that they were generally a bit thicker than the second gen.
 
When you say cutting chickens what do you mean? If you are breaking down 80 kg/day of whole raw birds then I would recommend considering a specialized chicken butcher tool like a garasuki or honesuki. You could get a decent professional butcher grade blade for under $100 and then have plenty to work with for a more general purpose chef knife. Personally, I use an old carbon Sabatier for my chicken knife. Dedicating this job to a different knife saves me wear and tear on my gyutos. If you are just slicing cooked chicken breasts or something, and your edge isn't making it through the day, then I think the issue is your sharpening. Slicing protein is one of the easiest tasks a knife usually has to face. Even a brand new $500 knife will get dull after a few shifts in a professional environment. What are you using to sharpen? Might want to use part of your budget to pick up a stone or two.
 
With edge retention in mind - I would consider that Gengetsu from BST, or Kochi from Jon, Masashi from Knifewear or Watanabe/Toyama second hand. Maybe Yoshikane SKD, though they are too lightweight to be considered a workhorse in my book.

Thank you for the suggestions

Between the Gengetsu, Kochi, and Munetoshi which would you go with?

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...oducts/gengetsu-210mm-semi-stainless-wa-gyuto
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/kochi/products/kochi-210mm-migaki-wa-gyuto
https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/
 
When you say cutting chickens what do you mean? If you are breaking down 80 kg/day of whole raw birds then I would recommend considering a specialized chicken butcher tool like a garasuki or honesuki. You could get a decent professional butcher grade blade for under $100 and then have plenty to work with for a more general purpose chef knife. Personally, I use an old carbon Sabatier for my chicken knife. Dedicating this job to a different knife saves me wear and tear on my gyutos. If you are just slicing cooked chicken breasts or something, and your edge isn't making it through the day, then I think the issue is your sharpening. Slicing protein is one of the easiest tasks a knife usually has to face. Even a brand new $500 knife will get dull after a few shifts in a professional environment. What are you using to sharpen? Might want to use part of your budget to pick up a stone or two.

I'm cutting raw chicken breasts. I have a different knife for bone

I'm getting through my day ok now. I just want an upgrade

I'm using a 5000 grit stone. What would you recommend for stones?
 

I would probably go Kochi kurouchi (the KU is awesome) or Kochi migaki, then Gengetsu (Kochi is taller and I like that) and then Munetoshi (super HT, WH grind, but the relatively flat profile is not for everyone)
 
I would probably go Kochi kurouchi (the KU is awesome) or Kochi migaki, then Gengetsu (Kochi is taller and I like that) and then Munetoshi (super HT, WH grind, but the relatively flat profile is not for everyone)

I will go with the Kochi based on your recommendation. Thanks for the help

The only one in stock is the Migaki so I will go with that one

Could you recommend me a stone for the knife as well? I am a novice at knife sharpening but I would like to learn
 
If you have the budget, than get Gesshin 2000 and Gesshin Synthetic Natural. Some of the best stones out there. You will not need a coarse stone right away. The Gesshin 400 is nice, but bitt too soft and fast dishing (although also fast cutting). Permasoak them.

If your budget is tight, then a set of Shapton Pro (320, 1000 and 5000) will be all you will ever need (save for a nice Suita later down the road). These are splash and go.
 
I will go with the Kochi based on your recommendation. Thanks for the help

The only one in stock is the Migaki so I will go with that one

Could you recommend me a stone for the knife as well? I am a novice at knife sharpening but I would like to learn
You'll be very happy with that Kochi Migaki. Mine is one of my favorite knives. It's very different than the Kochi KU (Migaki=convex grind, KU=concave grind). I'd rather have the Migaki in a pro kitchen, it feels more durable that the KU. Good choice.
 
Have a conversation with @JBroida at JKI before purchasing either knife or stone. He will best be able to match your wishes with a knife and stone. Preferences differ. For example, I preferred Gengetsu to Kochi migaki ....

I already ordered the Kochi Migaki. My knowledge of knives is basic at this point. I'm still figuring out my preferences. For me its a tool but I'm interested in getting into the hobby side of it though.
 
I recently purchased a Doi 240 blue #2 and am now surprised it doesnt come up more in these conversations. I can do all of my kitchen tasks with this one knife (but dont, because I need to justify having so many knives...)
 
You'll be very happy with that Kochi Migaki. Mine is one of my favorite knives. It's very different than the Kochi KU (Migaki=convex grind, KU=concave grind). I'd rather have the Migaki in a pro kitchen, it feels more durable that the KU. Good choice.

Concave? It’s a wide bevel, no?
 
I recently purchased a Doi 240 blue #2 and am now surprised it doesnt come up more in these conversations. I can do all of my kitchen tasks with this one knife (but dont, because I need to justify having so many knives...)
the ones at Craig has/had at carbon looked outstanding. where did you purchase yours?
 
MARTELL!!! one of my favs. Like most of us here lots of knives come and go, my Martell is a keeper, in fact i just got a second one. nice and thin at the edge, nice convexity for good food release. Glides through everything so good. My 240 feels super robust, can abuse it all day on poly boards no problem. At your budget you can get a sweet one with nice handle materials.
 
You'll be very happy with that Kochi Migaki. Mine is one of my favorite knives. It's very different than the Kochi KU (Migaki=convex grind, KU=concave grind). I'd rather have the Migaki in a pro kitchen, it feels more durable that the KU. Good choice.

Not the Migaki version. The V2 and the stainless clad are wide bevel.

?

Sorry, didn't mean to start an exchange. All I meant is that the KU versions are all wide bevel, and I wouldn't call them a concave grind.

I second your recommendation of that line, though. I've only had the KU version, not the Migaki, but it was awesome.
 
My knife and stones came in

Japanese Knife Imports was fantastic to deal with. They followed up with me to make sure I was going to be 100% comfortable with my knife and answered a few questions. I received my knife in 2 days... and I live on the east coast of Canada

Thank you again for the help everyone

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was that the last kochi migaki no one was buying? It was sitting there torturing me for a while.
 
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