How do Shigefusa attach their handles?

[OkayMode]

I assumed it would be burnt in or with beeswax, but I tried rehandling mine today by heating it up and knocking the handle with a wooden block, but it seems pretty securely on there.

 

[OyakoDont]

I have a kurouchi santoku that I rehandled so I’m not sure if it’s comparable to any of their more expensive knives. It took a good bit of time in the toaster oven and some pounding to get the handle off. I’ve only taken off one other handle and it was by far much easier than the Shigefusa. If you have some working gloves around, I say put them on for grip, pound the block harder, and alternate sides you hit the handle on.

 

[OkayMode]

I have a kurouchi santoku that I rehandled so I’m not sure if it’s comparable to any of their more expensive knives. It took a good bit of time in the toaster oven and some pounding to get the handle off. I’ve only taken off one other handle and it was by far much easier than the Shigefusa. If you have some working gloves around, I say put them on for grip, pound the block harder, and alternate sides you hit the handle on.

Thanks for the tips!

How long in the oven did you go? I’ve been doing 10 minutes at 80-90 Celsius, which doesn’t seem to be doing it but is usually fine for the other friction/glue/burnt in handles I’ve done.

I’ve been wrapping the knife in newspaper and using grippy oven gloves, but I haven’t tried alternating sides yet.

 

[OyakoDont]

I think I went for 120C in the oven for 40 minutes, but if you feel uncomfortable with that, maybe start with 100C. My reasoning is it should be enough to loosen any adhesive and if it’s not adhesive, then 100C is enough to start dehydrating the wood.

I forgot about the newspaper, but yeah, can’t forget to do that. I will say it scared me a bit when I was knocking it off, I felt like I was knocking the daylights out of the wood piece. The tang is also very thick, I think that has something to do with the difficulty in getting it off.

 

[dehory]

You could also try boiling water instead of the oven. For trickier handle removals, I've used my Joule set to 206°F/97°C. I put the knife inside a freezer Ziploc and submerged it past the neck in the pot of hot water for 10-15 mins. I think applying direct heat to the blade helps to warm/release the adhesive from the inside of the handle (via the tang) as well as the outside. (I don't like the idea of using a stovetop to heat the water, which could heat up the bottom of the pot too much and maybe melt the Ziploc.)

 

[OkayMode]

The tang is also very thick, I think that has something to do with the difficulty in getting it off.

I was comparing the tang slot size between a JNS Wakui handle I knocked off earlier this weekend (the knife has a similar neck width where it enters the handle) and the handle I have picked out to replace it with, and the difference is significant… It’s going to be a lot of work with a needle file, and I’m wondering if I can make some kind of jig to drill instead.

You could also try boiling water instead of the oven. For trickier handle removals, I've used my Joule set to 206°F/97°C. I put the knife inside a freezer Ziploc and submerged it past the neck in the pot of hot water for 10-15 mins. I think applying direct heat to the blade helps to warm/release the adhesive from the inside of the handle (via the tang) as well as the outside. (I don't like the idea of using a stovetop to heat the water, which could heat up the bottom of the pot too much and maybe melt the Ziploc.)

This is a great idea! Receiving a Joel Black this weekend that was vacuum sealed now has me wondering whether I can sous vide it

 

[ethompson]

This is a great idea! Receiving a Joel Black this weekend that was vacuum sealed now has me wondering whether I can sous vide it

I've sous vided a knife before to get the handle off. Wouldn't budge with just some whacks but 2 hours at 75C and one whack sent the handle flying. Be careful though, knife will be too hot to handle bare handed, I used a thick, dry kitchen towel to hold the blade.

 

[cwk.v]

Came here to suggest boiling water, but @dehory beat me to it! That's always how I get handles off. I also like to double ziplock freezer bag. I've never had an issue with leaks through that.

Sous vide sounds like it would also work well, but I like that with boiling, I can keep the blade out of the water and not let it get quite so hot.

 

[cotedupy]

I assumed it would be burnt in or with beeswax, but I tried rehandling mine today by heating it up and knocking the handle with a wooden block, but it seems pretty securely on there.

Probably epoxied then, you'll need to naked boil it. Shock temp changes help too; i.e. boiling water, iced water, boiling water, iced water, &c.

If you haven't done it before, and you're selling or swapping it - I would suggest leaving it, rather than practicing on a brand new shig.

 

[OkayMode]

If you haven't done it before, and you're selling or swapping it - I would suggest leaving it, rather than practicing on a brand new shig.

Nothing compelling (to me!) came up on my WTT, so I’m going to be keeping it - hence the decision to rehandle.

You’re right though, why do I keep having to learn new skills on the expensive stuff… Maybe it would be wiser to admit defeat and take it to a professional.

I've sous vided a knife before to get the handle off. Wouldn't budge with just some whacks but 2 hours at 75C and one whack sent the handle flying. Be careful though, knife will be too hot to handle bare handed, I used a thick, dry kitchen towel to hold the blade.

And no sign of any grey ring?!

 

[deltaplex]

Nothing compelling (to me!) came up on my WTT, so I’m going to be keeping it - hence the decision to rehandle.

You’re right though, why do I keep having to learn new skills on the expensive stuff… Maybe it would be wiser to admit defeat and take it to a professional.


And no sign of any grey ring?!

I'd imagine it's similar to what's used on the KU wat pros, so it's a really sticky, slightly elastic material mixed with sawdust and it's a PITA to get knocked off, and then it's a sticky mess to get the tang clean. I think I used a hardwood 1x4 or something similar, a hammer and a heat gun. Some combo of warming it and whacking it should get it removed relatively easily.

 

[labor of love]

Shig handles are really nice! Sad to hear they more or less have to be destroyed to be removed.

 

[OkayMode]

As an update, I did get it off in the end with the boiling water method! Double layered in freezer bags to keep the knife and handle dry.

Interestingly, there was no glue or debris that I could see on the tang, so I suspect it may have just been burnt in directly without any bonding agents at all.

Currently filing out a very nice ebony and blonde/red horn handle to fit on it.

 

[OyakoDont]

Share pics of the knife with a new handle when you have them! And how long it takes you to carve out the new tang hole.

 

[OkayMode]

Share pics of the knife with a new handle when you have them! And how long it takes you to carve out the new tang hole.

So yeah it ended up taking me ages filing out a tang hole big enough, and I ended up burning in the last 10%, but it's done!

Weight is now an authoritative 245g, with the balance point at a more natural length down the blade.

 

[cwk.v]

So yeah it ended up taking me ages filing out a tang hole big enough, and I ended up burning in the last 10%, but it's done!

Weight is now an authoritative 245g, with the balance point at a more natural length down the blade.

Whelp, now I want one

 

[JBroida]

As an update, I did get it off in the end with the boiling water method! Double layered in freezer bags to keep the knife and handle dry.

Interestingly, there was no glue or debris that I could see on the tang, so I suspect it may have just been burnt in directly without any bonding agents at all.

Currently filing out a very nice ebony and blonde/red horn handle to fit on it.

many old school makers use no adhesive and simply burn in very well... they spend a lot of time practicing how far they can go before the handle breaks. They often press in with their hands about 70% of the way in or so, and the rest is tapped in with a mallet

 

[OkayMode]

many old school makers use no adhesive and simply burn in very well... they spend a lot of time practicing how far they can go before the handle breaks. They often press in with their hands about 70% of the way in or so, and the rest is tapped in with a mallet

The stock handle on this was burnt in with no adhesive, which made knocking it off nice and tidy. It was very securely burnt in too - took me a few attempts with the mallet before I got it off.

Filing down the tang slot for such a chunky tang was literally painful - I have calluses from the needle files

I tapped the last bit in with a mallet - it’s not a perfect install insofar as the tang sits slightly low, but the spine is centred on the other axis and the choil is perpendicular, so I’m happy enough.

 

[JBroida]

why do you guys file down the tang slot? You can just burn in and be done

 

[cwk.v]

why do you guys file down the tang slot? You can just burn in and be done

Genuine question, but have you successfuly burned in a dense wood like ebony?

 

[OkayMode]

why do you guys file down the tang slot? You can just burn in and be done

Honestly because I thought that was the standard practice for dense woods…

I’ve seen you post before about burning in all woods including ebony, so I’ll certainly give that a go next time.

 

[cwk.v]

Honestly because I thought that was the standard practice for dense woods…

Same for me! I always thought it was necessary to file

 

[jedy617]

From what I understand hardwoods can crack with the burn in method, as well as I like to occasionally change handles out, I love hot glue for that.

Been rocking a handle on a shig for 6 months and felt like a change recently

 

[cwk.v]

From what I understand hardwoods can crack with the burn in method, as well as I like to occasionally change handles out, I love hot glue for that.

Been rocking a handle on a shig for 6 months and felt like a change recently

That was my understanding, too. (Have also cracked a handle before, whoops)

Hot glue is my go-to, as well

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I've always understood that cracking during burn-in was more associated with stabilized woods with the epoxy expanding rapidly.

 

[jedy617]

Could be, also in my experience lots of times harder wood means more susceptibility to cracking. Like snakewood is extremely hard, and very susceptible to cracking. Gidgee as well

 

[M1k3]

I've always understood that cracking during burn-in was more associated with stabilized woods with the epoxy expanding rapidly.

Or the handle installer not widening the tang slot enough. And being ham-fisted with the mallet.....

Not that I know from experience

 

[JBroida]

Genuine question, but have you successfuly burned in a dense wood like ebony?

yeah... many times... even just a few minutes ago today. I don't think I've seen people in japan do much with raps and files, and the main training I've done with this kind of work has always been in japan.

 

[cwk.v]

yeah... many times... even just a few minutes ago today. I don't think I've seen people in japan do much with raps and files, and the main training I've done with this kind of work has always been in japan.

Teach me the ways!!

Jokes aside, is cracking something like ebony more of a function of the tang not being hot enough then? I imagine there is some level of size congruency required

 

[JBroida]

not hot enough, too hot, too strong with the mallet, etc. When the handles are made, they drill a guide slot and then burn in a roughly appropriate hole using pieces of metal forged to be roughly the same size/shape as a knife tang. I've got a set of them here for what its worth if you ever want pictures.