I figured this would happen sooner or later....

[pitted_soul]

Ok, I did a trade with another forum member, it was pretty equal on paper. It was based on a BST ad to sell a knife and I approached the person about a trade. I happened to have something that would fit his bill and we decided that it was pretty much an even trade. I didn't ask if there was anything wrong, because that should have been listed on the advertisement, correct?

I got my knife in and initially everything looked on the up and up. Closer inspection revealed that the knife blade was misaligned with the handle. When you look down on it while holding in your hand, the blade veers to the right. The blade doesn't seem bent. I let a local knife expert at a shop look at it (such a great resource) and he agreed that it was definitely misaligned. It looks like an original handle and the blade doesn't look bent. It looks like it was inserted at an angle or the handle hole was made at an odd angle. Regardless of cause, it veers about 5 degrees (at most) to the right. This was mentioned nowhere in the advertisement for sale nor in conversation.

And honestly, it doesn't bother me too much, but should I ever trade or resell, it's going to be bothering my wallet.

I messaged the forum member and he is not responding. I haven't seen him officially post anything yet, but he has been on the forum multiple times since I messaged him (per his profile 'last activity'), I have sent multiple (3) messages with no response. I have reached out to the maker to see what it will take to remedy the situation.

So, what would you guys suggest doing?

Thanks,

Corey

 

[gentiscid]

Give it some time to respond and if they keep ignoring your messages, report them to the mods.

Idk what you expect from the other exchanger, send the knife back or get money compensation. But you can try to heat the handle and see if you can readjust the angle. Otherwise you will have to remove and reinstall it yourself or have someone else fix it for you.

 

[tostadas]

Sounds like nothing wrong with the blade itself, which is good. Some japanese knives come stock with crooked installs, whether horizontally (as in your case), or vertically (where blade points up or down too much).

The fix is pretty simple assuming it's not attached with epoxy. Just would be a matter of removing the handle, and reinstalling straight. If the hole is oversized, and filled with a lot of extra glue, it could be as little as reheating the tang, and pushing it in straight to melt the glue in the correct area. If the original hole or burn in is crooked, then you could file away additional material from the inside, or heat the tang to red hot and burn away material to get a straight fit up, then re-glue. Labor would be somewhere on the order of around $30, depending on how much effort it would be to remove the handle, and how clean you want the fit up to be.

I would try to come to some sort of agreement with the seller, and concurrently if you want to get it fixed, find someone familiar with installing handles and see if they're willing to do it for you.

 

[pitted_soul]

I

Give it some time to respond and if they keep ignoring your messages, report them to the mods.

Idk what you expect from the other exchanger, send the knife back or get money compensation. But you can try to heat the handle and see if you can readjust the angle. Otherwise you will have to remove and reinstall it yourself or have someone else fix it for you.

I should have been clearer. I just wanted to know what recourse do I have here at KKF. I'm old and professional, I can handle the interpersonal stuff well enough lol.

 

[pitted_soul]

Sounds like nothing wrong with the blade itself, which is good. Some japanese knives come stock with crooked installs, whether horizontally (as in your case), or vertically (where blade points up or down too much).

The fix is pretty simple assuming it's not attached with epoxy. Just would be a matter of removing the handle, and reinstalling straight. If the hole is oversized, and filled with a lot of extra glue, it could be as little as reheating the tang, and pushing it in straight to melt the glue in the correct area. If the original hole or burn in is crooked, then you could file away additional material from the inside, or heat the tang to red hot and burn away material to get a straight fit up, then re-glue. Labor would be somewhere on the order of around $30, depending on how much effort it would be to remove the handle, and how clean you want the fit up to be.

I would try to come to some sort of agreement with the seller, and concurrently if you want to get it fixed, find someone familiar with installing handles and see if they're willing to do it for you.

Thanks, Yeah, I'm not too worried about the fix or the cost. I just don't like dealing with disingenuous folks. This was a handmade knife from a respected and fairly well-known maker. I've had generally pretty positive interactions in our community. I also haven't been here too long either. While I have been in other knife forums for quite a while, I am relatively new over here.

I was mainly looking at recourse here on KKF (because I want him to BURN! lol), I was curious how some people have addressed this. I am going to wait a few more days and see what happens and if nothing happens or something worse, i'll contact the mods.

 

[rickbern]

KKF is pretty clear that it’s a buyer beware situation. Here is a post in a recent thread where one of the mods reiterates the policy

Post in thread 'Knife buying - Security/PayPal'
Knife buying - Security/PayPal

 

[labor of love]

I was mainly looking at recourse here on KKF (because I want him to BURN! lol), I was curious how some people have addressed this. I am going to wait a few more days and see what happens and if nothing happens or something worse, i'll contact the mods.

You can politely ask for a refund or some compensation to fix the installation if the seller is a cool guy maybe he’ll help you out but as far as I can tell from what you’ve stated he doesn’t have to.
Photos of the knife are supposed to be visual representations of the blade so if you didn’t notice it before buying well that’s kinda on you, however perhaps the seller should’ve mentioned the install was off if it was that bad.
As far as Mods go, to my knowledge they treat this sorta thing as private agreements between two individuals and aren’t going to get involved unless theft or scamming took place.
In my opinion, if I was the seller…I’d PayPal you $30 to get a new install.

 

[pitted_soul]

This isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. This isn't my main knife either. It's a learning experience. It is absolutely a buyer beware situation and I don't want KKF to pay for the knife of a full refund or anything like that. It is seeming to me that it was a dishonest representation and if the member is unwilling to resolve the situation in any meaningful way, I would like to facilitate an informational campaign about this user if no ban is in order (and I don't know if that is even a possibility). My non-knife wife even noticed it and the way the picture was taken, it is difficult to discern it. If this isn't resolved, is there a KKF court I can go to to earn the right to lambast his name all over the site? Kidding Kidding.....

I've reached out to Mert to see if he had any insight because it looks like it was installed that way honestly. I'll find out what he used and what he would suggest to do and go from there. It's probably an easy fix.

 

[pitted_soul]

Thanks to everyone that helped, much appreciated. The seller did eventually reach out to me. He seems engaged and willing to compensate. I also feel more informed in the future should something go sideways.

On a side note, I got in touch with the maker and he said that depending on when he made it, the handle can't be removed without being destroyed in the process. Which stinks because that was half the reason I got this knife.

 

[enrico]

May we see a picture of these proposed "issues"

 

[pitted_soul]

May we see a picture of these proposed "issues"

This captured it best.

 

[pitted_soul]

So the seller is surprised by this and is questioning his sanity because he never noticed it. It wasn't packaged great but the box seemed in good shape so I didn't think it happened in shipping. There's no handle or blade damage and the blade seems to be straight to the handle which, to me, seems like the last place a knife would bend first if some kind of perpendicular or oblique force was applied. And my local, well-respected knife guy seemed to think it was originally like that and not from damage as none was visible.

 

[enrico]

Interesting. Hard to tell from the photo but just looks like a crooked install.


Is it this HVB??

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/hvb-52100-235-metal-monkey-dammy-225-kono-ys-210.69093/

 

[pitted_soul]

Interesting. Hard to tell from his photo on the BST post but there looks to be a slight angle on the install. Is it this HVB??

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/hvb-52100-235-metal-monkey-dammy-225-kono-ys-210.69093/

Correct. I was looking at the spine and wasn't checking alignment. It isn't something that jumps out from you in that pic or even something I look for (then). I am ok with a few degrees off, but this is noticeable and would affect a trade or resale I think. That is my main concern.

 

[enrico]

Always ask for photos with a blank background. It's also interesting because it seems like it came from this post originally where no spine shot was posted. All sellers are different in their efforts to portray a knife. It's not usually malicious but this is certainly a learning experience. Ask for more photos, videos, history.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/marko-and-hvb.52585/

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/hvb-52100-235mm-gyuto.47314/

 

[pitted_soul]

@enrico you are quite the efficient sleuth, thank you very much. I passed that information on to Mert about the original vendor and gyuto #. It is interesting that neither seller had a spine shot. I am going with Hanlon's Razor on this particular interaction. As long as he maintains this current posture, that's what I'm sticking with.

 

[ethompson]

I’d try putting the blade on your counter with just the handle hanging off the edge, with the and using a heavy book or cutting board between your hand and the blade try and use the handle to gently bend it back to being a little straighter. With San Mai this would be easy peasy but with mono it’s a bit harder but probably would still work well.

Another note is that having the handle angle towards your dominant side relative to the spine a few degrees is actually ergonomically helpful.

 

[pitted_soul]

Another note is that having the handle angle towards your dominant side relative to the spine a few degrees is actually ergonomically helpful.

It really doesn't bother me and I may end up liking it. I'm in a pinch 3/4 of the time anyways. It has an interesting grind that I don't know if I love though, so I would like to know I can recoup as much as possible so that isn't part of my decision tree. Hell, it gives it some more personality and a story now. It has a great patina that I don't want to lose either.

 

[ehhh]

In my experience it's not that common to have a perfectly straight handle install or a perfectly straight blade. I've come to accept that knives might not be perfectly straight, they just need to be acceptably straight. There are a few that I've gotten that look perfect and I chalk it up to exceptional attention to detail and the highest levels of fit and finish. Or maybe I just have bad luck if everyone else gets perfectly straight knives most of the time.

I think the asymmetric handle may also create an optical illusion that makes it look more crooked than it actually is.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Correct. I was looking at the spine and wasn't checking alignment. It isn't something that jumps out from you in that pic or even something I look for (then). I am ok with a few degrees off, but this is noticeable and would affect a trade or resale I think. That is my main concern.

Yes its quite easy to see the deviation in the choil shot, but only noticeable if you knew it was there because of the backdrop. The handle is aligned with the lens but the blade faces to the left. I would also expect the owner to offer $30 to compensate for a handle reinstall as that is quite a deviation. Not the end of the world though.

 

[Just a DK]

Have you tried to take off the handle to see if its a issue with the hole in the handle? If its just an issue of filing down one side to straighten it might not be a hard lift to try to fix (e.g. is the knife and tang straight and just a issue with the handle/insert). Also seen sometimes there is too much adhesive on one side vs other which causes a lean and just need to clear/move that out.

If knife is thin enough the bend thing is actually quite easy to do as long as you are gentle and slow about it (I've done it once on a petty and it was pretty easy). Personally, I'd be to scared to mess with spine accidently on a HVB.

 

[pitted_soul]

If knife is thin enough the bend thing is actually quite easy to do as long as you are gentle and slow about it (I've done it once on a petty and it was pretty easy). Personally, I'd be to scared to mess with spine accidently on a HVB.

Well, I reached out to Mert just to get his input. He immediately said that some of his handles can't be removed without destroying them. So there's that. I sent specifics and I am awaiting his reply. It may be a simple handle fix but sounds like it could be more complicated than meets the eye if I am inferring correctly.

 

[pitted_soul]

Yes its quite easy to see the deviation in the choil shot, but only noticeable if you knew it was there because of the backdrop. The handle is aligned with the lens but the blade faces to the left. I would also expect the owner to offer $30 to compensate for a handle reinstall as that is quite a deviation. Not the end of the world though.

Well Mert said it may not be a simple handle reinstall, so I am waiting to see what he says. The owner has indicated that he is willing to cover the expense after I showed him my picture.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Well Mert said it may not be a simple handle reinstall, so I am waiting to see what he says. The owner has indicated that he is willing to cover the expense after I showed him my picture.

Can you share the spine photo? Just want to see how much of a defect was hidden by the curated angles.

 

[pitted_soul]

Can you share the spine photo? Just want to see how much of a defect was hidden by the curated angles.

Did you see the one above? That's the best I have ATM.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Did you see the one above? That's the best I have ATM.

No I missed that. But jeez. Looks like an elephant sat on it. Completely unacceptable.

 

[Corradobrit1]

So the seller is surprised by this and is questioning his sanity because he never noticed it. It wasn't packaged great but the box seemed in good shape so I didn't think it happened in shipping. There's no handle or blade damage and the blade seems to be straight to the handle which, to me, seems like the last place a knife would bend first if some kind of perpendicular or oblique force was applied. And my local, well-respected knife guy seemed to think it was originally like that and not from damage as none was visible.

That deviation was there from the getgo (as seen in the choil shot) hence none of the sellers showed any of the regular photos showcasing the blade that would illustrated the problem.

 

[Delat]

I don't personally inspect my knives for straightness and alignment, although I guess I probably should. But I suspect it would just cause me angst as they're all perfectly fine in use even though I'm sure it's pretty common for knives not to be perfectly aligned with the handle. So I wouldn't necessarily assume the seller was hiding anything - he could just be happily oblivious/uncaring like me.

Anyway, if it's a san mai then straightening it should be pretty easy. For a mono it's much harder and not something I personally would be tempted to attempt. Asking for a small refund like the $30 mentioned above sounds reasonable to me.

 

[labor of love]

This captured it best.

Yeah-until you posted this shot I assumed what you were talking about was minor. I would not be happy with this at all.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Did you see the one above? That's the best I have ATM.

Can you duplicate this image from the sale in 2020. To my eye this appears to be straight. I can't believe the knife left Mert's hands looking so obviously misaligned. He's a perfectionist.
And if it was straight then little chance the handle was poorly installed, more like a bent tang. Double check the edge is true against a flat surface.