Kiyoshi Kato 240 Standard Gyuto Passaround

[Barmoley]

The knife is on the way to the last participant. First of all big thank you to @tgfencer for allowing me to try this knife. I haven't tried a Kato before and this was a great opportunity to check it out. I used it for about a week as my main knife only comparing it at certain times to Marko workhorse just to see how similar these are. Over all, I liked Kato a lot and I think it is a good knife. Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion. This only happened once. The knife cut well and food release is good, it is a good middle of the road knife to me, good at everything, doesn't really excel in anything specific. I wasn't blown away by any one characteristic of the knife, but it was pleasant to use and did well on everything I used it on. Out of all the knives I've used it reminded me most of the previous generation CKC Mazaki, not the same but many similarities in use overall. The profile and grind worked well for me on this Kato. I usually like for the tip to be a little lower, but this worked well. Balance was good for me. All in all, a good experience and a good knife. Would I buy it at current market price range? I wouldn't. I would probably buy it if it was in the $650-$700 price range, given how the prices for kitchen knives have gone up in the last few years.

 

[Alder26]

The knife is on the way to the last participant. First of all big thank you to @tgfencer for allowing me to try this knife. I haven't tried a Kato before and this was a great opportunity to check it out. I used it for about a week as my main knife only comparing it at certain times to Marko workhorse just to see how similar these are. Over all, I liked Kato a lot and I think it is a good knife. Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion. This only happened once. The knife cut well and food release is good, it is a good middle of the road knife to me, good at everything, doesn't really excel in anything specific. I wasn't blown away by any one characteristic of the knife, but it was pleasant to use and did well on everything I used it on. Out of all the knives I've used it reminded me most of the previous generation CKC Mazaki, not the same but many similarities in use overall. The profile and grind worked well for me on this Kato. I usually like for the tip to be a little lower, but this worked well. Balance was good for me. All in all, a good experience and a good knife. Would I buy it at current market price range? I wouldn't. I would probably buy it if it was in the $650-$700 price range, given how the prices for kitchen knives have gone up in the last few years.

How similar do you find the kato to Tsourkan? I know that in many ways Tsourkan modeled the workhorse profile of his knives after Kato. It was a part of the I was attracted to Tsourkan’s work initially.

 

[Gregmega]

How similar do you find the kato to Tsourkan? I know that in many ways Tsourkan modeled the workhorse profile of his knives after Kato. It was a part of the I was attracted to Tsourkan’s work initially.

Tsourkan’s blades are much more sturdy than Kato, His cross-sectional geometry is thicker all around and the blade on the whole is considerably heavier. I’d guess by about 20%, so it’s pretty significant. Kato is super thin behind the edge as a result feels more delicate, so really the only thing that ties the 2 together would be the profile. I know Kato was used as inspiration for the line, but that’s about as far as it goes IME.

*I just had a thought about the Tsourkan blade as well- it’s a pretty heavy convex grind and Kato is a bit more flat, which also adds to the beefiness of his vs Kato.

 

[user 16756]

agree, Tsourkan is a great knife but it's an axe compared to a Kato.

it's a bit like cutting with a hammer. feels great but finesse requires a certain degree of doing.

 

[Gregmega]

Yeah that about sums it up. It’s got a ton more ‘presence’ on the board, like a very commanding weighty piece that wants to clobber things, kinda indestructible.

I actually bounced mine on a concrete floor and it didn’t even have a scratch. 52100 is no joke. The kato probs woulda broken in half

 

[Luftmensch]

The tiny cracks are perpendicular to the spine the darker line that is parallel is just a reflection. I don’t think these are a problem at all. I wasn’t trying to imply that.

View attachment 105963

Fascinating.... The two dominant parallel lines are the san-mai sandwich. The first (left) perpendicular line is the beginning of the sandwich. The other two are irregular. Cracks? Cold forging? Deep scratches?

Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion

It werent the onion

 

[Barmoley]

agree, Tsourkan is a great knife but it's an axe compared to a Kato.

it's a bit like cutting with a hammer. feels great but finesse requires a certain degree of doing.

My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.

Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.

 

[user 16756]

My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.

Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.

it's relative right?

of every knife I own I believe Tsourkan is the thickest behind the edge except Z Kramer.

I prefer the grind and profile of the Kato (it is, afterall, my favorite knife) and everything else I prefer Tsourkan. unlike most folks though I have an AEBL workhorse and his HT of the stuff turned me into a believer.

to me both are great knives though Tsourkan is starting to leave the realm of reasonably priced (though direct it's fine) and Kato left that a long time ago. as such, these days for a knife in this weight class I now actually prefer Mazaki although I will say Ive now put a few hours into mine thinning it and cleaning up the heinously ugly finish he leaves on his knives.

I wish more folks did profiles that looked like Kato's btw. if anyone has the heads up on something in that region, especially with a nashiji kurouchi style finish, Id appreciate the info.

 

[Gregmega]

Mazaki all day (kochi to a degree)

 

[Gregmega]

My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.

Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.

I think what really sets the two apart isn’t how thin it is behind the edge so much as the cross sectional geometry just beyond the edge for me. My Marko cracked a bit on carrots, where as I just used my 240 std the other night and it ghosts through carrots & denser materials. My 210wh also is a much more nuanced and thin overall grind. Mind you all these blades have pretty close geometry- 220/50 (wh) 225/50 (MT) 225/52 (std). With the ratio of metal removed on that small of a variance and in the right places, it feels like a mile on the boards (if that makes sense).

 

[Midsummer]

My Kato WH (Kiyoshi 2014 Maxim) is obese behind the edge. Have yet to try Tsourkan.

 

[Barmoley]

The only Marko workhorses I've tried were 52100 I don't remember any of the 4 cracking carrots. Depends on the carrots I suppose. In any case Kato is too expensive for me for what it is given the one example I tried. Marko to me is a better knife over all. Maybe I am not skilled enough to get the Kato magic and I would definitely own one if the price was reasonable. As it stands I am very glad I tried this one and thankful for this opportunity.

 

[user 16756]

The only Marko workhorses I've tried were 52100 I don't remember any of the 4 cracking carrots. Depends on the carrots I suppose. In any case Kato is too expensive for me for what it is given the one example I tried. Marko to me is a better knife over all. Maybe I am not skilled enough to get the Kato magic and I would definitely own one if the price was reasonable. As it stands I am very glad I tried this one and thankful for this opportunity.

it's unlikely it's about skill. there are tons of pro chefs on this forum who can cut and cook circles around me (though Im not so bad compared to normal people)

we all have preferences.

and it's not like these knives are made on a line by robots, they can differ quite a bit. my Kato WH is similarly very thin behind edge, doesnt mean yours was.

 

[Midsummer]

it's not like these knives are made on a line by robots, they can differ quite a bit.

^^^
This is so true.... I should either check the knife out before buying or have a vendor I can trust to check it for me.

 

[tgfencer]

Alright folks, the Kato passaround is now complete. Thanks to everyone who participated for keeping everything running smoothly despite the few inevitable bumps along the way.

Now for the giveaway. I'm going to stick with the tried and true Random number generator. I've included a list of everyone who participated below. Please help me make sure I didn't leave anybody off or keep someone who dropped out, as the list did change a few times during the passaround. I'm hoping to do the drawing tomorrow. I'll post the winner here and contact them via PM.

@SilverSwarfer
@McMan
@GorillaGrunt
@Ryndunk
@bahamaroot
@Cloudsmoker
@Cool_charlie
@labor of love
@CiderBear
@Barclid
@pgugger
@KCMande
@jimmy_d
@Nagakin
@captaincaed
@ryanjams
@TSF415
@mise_en_place
@Ivang
@slickmamba
@Barmoley
@Hamesjo

 

[tgfencer]

And the winner of the 2020-2021 Kato Passaround Giveaway is.............(drum roll)...........

 

[tgfencer]

Number 22! @Hamesjo

 

[McMan]

Congrats to @Hamesjo!
Thanks again to @tgfencer for putting this together--a fun and thoughtful idea to make this a PA instead of simply selling the Kato. Very cool to think of this as a way to let people try a knife they might not have the opportunity to use otherwise.