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Shangster

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Hello!
I’m looking for a reference book on knife steel that includes information about what brands use what type of steels, history and comparative properties of various and common steels used for knives in general (and kitchen in particular), how to identify/evaluate steel types and properties (stamped vs forged?) by experimentation (if possible), common cheap steels vs more expensive varieties and differences in who/how/why/where they’re produced and used knife making etc. etc. etc. Example titles of the book might be “Everything You Ever Wanted To Know about Knife Steel” or even better - “Knife Steel Bible”. Internet searches usually bring up books about knife making or steel production methods, both of which are interesting - but neither are what I’m looking for. Anyone recommend a next step or two for my search? Thanks!
 
+1 on zknives.

Larrin's knifesteelnerds.com has a lot of good info, much of it backed up by experiments rather than opinion.

KKF is a pretty good place to learn.

I would caution about too much of a focus on the exact steel, because the way it is heat treated has at least as much effect on the end product as the steel type itself. It's often said that you should " buy a maker, not a steel", and for good reason.

In general, very simple high carbon steels such as white2, 1095, W2 (tool steel), O1 and even 52100 CAN be made hard enough to maintain a very acute edge and they don't suffer from carbide pull out (see below). They don't have wonderful wear resitance so may need sharpening more often... but they are super easy to sharpen and touch up.

More highly alloyed steels include carbon steels like aogami2, and aogami super, through semistainless steels like SKD11 to simple stainless steels like AEBL and Ginsanko, to more highly alloyed stainless steels like VG10 and even more heavily alloyed steels. The alloying elements tend to form hard molecules with carbon called "carbides". Examples include chromium carbide, vanadium carbide and tungsten carbide. Some carbides are just a little bit harder than the hardened steel that they are embedded in, but some are much harder (depending on the element forming the carbide). These steels can also be made just as hard (sometimes even harder) than simple steels and are more wear resistant... but the more carbides that they have (and the larger those carbides are), the less acute an edge they will take (the carbides get "pulled out" at more acute sharpening angles, causing the edge to collapse). This is especially true of many stainless steels, which tend to form a lot of Cr carbides.

TLDR, simple steels are easy to sharpen and get really sharp but have limited wear resistance, so may not stay sharp as long. They also tend to not be corrosion resistant. More highly alloyed steels are harder to sharpen, don't get as sharp but have better wear resistance and may be corrosion resistant.
 
Last edited:
Nemo said:
+1 on zknives.

Larrin's knifesteelnerds.com has a lot of good info, much of it backed up by experiments rather than opinion.

KKF is a pretty good place to learn.

I would caution about too much of a focus on the exact steel, because the way it is heat treated has at least as much effect on the end product as the steel type itself. It's often said that you should " buy a maker, not a steel", and for good reason.

In general, very simple high carbon steels such as white2, 1095, W2 (tool steel), O1 and even 52100 CAN be made hard enough to maintain a very acute edge and they don't suffer from carbide pull out (see below). They don't have wonderful wear resitance so may need sharpening more often... but they are super easy to sharpen and touch up.

More highly alloyed steels include carbon steels like aogami2, and aogami super, through semistainless steels like SKD11 to simple stainless steels like AEBL and Ginsanko, to more highly alloyed stainless steels like VG10 and even more heavily alloyed steels. The alloying elements tend to form hard molecules with carbon called "carbides". Examples include chromium carbide, vanadium carbide and tungsten carbide. Some carbides are just a little bit harder than the hardened steel that they are embedded in, but some are much harder (depending on the element forming the carbide). These steels can also be made just as hard (sometimes even harder) than simple steels and are more wear resistant... but the more carbides that they have (and the larger those carbides are), the less acute an edge they will take (the carbides get "pulled out" at more acute sharpening angles, causing the edge to collapse). This is especially true of many stainless steels, which tend to form a lot of Cr carbides.

TLDR, simple steels are easy to sharpen and get really sharp but have limited wear resistance, so may not stay sharp as long. They also tend to not be corrosion resistant. More highly alloyed steels are harder to sharpen, don't get as sharp but have better wear resistance and may be corrosion resistant.
Click to expand...
Thanx Nemo - Sounds like you’ve forgotten more than I’ll ever know (metallurgist training or decades of experience? Both?) Will check out the recommended sites and see what I can learn. A few questions: Is it difficult to find out what steel is used in any specific knife if its maker can be identified? Do manufacturers willingly share that info or do most consider it proprietary? If a manufacturer won’t share the info, is it difficult to find out what steel was used by asking people that know knives well enough to make an educated guess? (I’m assuming most cheap mass-produced kitchen knives are made with the cheapest steel and production methods possible) Do you know some steel types used in cheap stainless kitchen knives? (It seems the better the blade the more the info about the steel is made available) Thanks for any help!
Cheers,
Shangster
 
Shangster said:
Thanx Nemo - Sounds like you’ve forgotten more than I’ll ever know (metallurgist training or decades of experience? Both?) Will check out the recommended sites and see what I can learn. A few questions: Is it difficult to find out what steel is used in any specific knife if its maker can be identified? Do manufacturers willingly share that info or do most consider it proprietary? If a manufacturer won’t share the info, is it difficult to find out what steel was used by asking people that know knives well enough to make an educated guess? (I’m assuming most cheap mass-produced kitchen knives are made with the cheapest steel and production methods possible) Do you know some steel types used in cheap stainless kitchen knives? (It seems the better the blade the more the info about the steel is made available) Thanks for any help!
Cheers,
Shangster
Click to expand...
Nope, no metallurgist here. Just an strong interest in the metallurgy of steel.

Many makers will tell you what steel their knife is made from. Some won't, but will often use vague terms like "semistainless". Sometimes the same line will be available in two steels and one of them will be disclosed and the other won't.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter. You probably need to know if the steel is stainless, semistainless or carbon. But beyond that, the way in which the steel is heat treated is probably much more important to how it performs than exactly which steel is used. Buy a maker, not a steel.

There are several steels used in cheapish Japanese stainless knives. AUS8 and similar CrMoV steels are often used. Not super hard (often HT to about 58HRC) but they can make OK knives. VG10 is also often used. Often HT to 60-62 HRC The HT of VG10 is said to be pretty important for the ease of sharpening & deburring. Tanaka and Ryusen are repeuted as doing a good HT of VG10.

Did I mention: Buy a maker, not a steel?
 
I always wanted to know the difference between b1 and b2.
 
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