looking for english term

[banjo1071]

Hi
I am looking for an englisch word. In Germany the thiness and unformity of a knifedge is tested with a test similar to this:

https://instagram.com/p/4zOsBtlW4Y/?taken-by=bryanraquin

The edge is so thin, it bends. The german term is "Nagelgängig", since this was traditionally done with your fingernail (or some kind of special ring)

Can anyone tell me, if there something similar (and the name for it) in englisch or japanese?

Cheers
Benjamin

 

[Rayuela]

There's a thing called the fingernail test, which is when you can deform the edge of the blade with a fingernail, but I don't know of a simple adjectival form; you have to say "it passed the fingernail test". English is less flexible than German in that respect.

 

[banjo1071]

Thanks for the quick answer. But imho the fingernail test refers to the foolish test of putting the knife on the fingernail and say if it "bites" At least thats what google says:

https://www.google.ch/search?q=fing...HIjvywOIsYXwCg&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1009

 

[Rayuela]

Oh it's true. It does mean that as well. I've also seen it used for the deformation-thing though. It looks like your paraphrase is going to have to be even longer: "fingernail blade-deformation test", unless Jon Broida can magic you up some Japanese term.

 

[Asteger]

How about borrowing from German a bit then, where 'nagel' means 'nail', and saying that a knife edge can have 'nail pliability'

 

[daveb]

If memory serves, Jon has described this flexing "test" in some of his videos as a test for sharpness. He also describes what you term "foolish" and how it is applicable. I'm foolish every time I sharpen and Mom thinks I'm the smart one. :scratchhead:

 

[jklip13]

testing the heat treat of the steel with a brass rod is a common technique. I've usually heard it referred to as "the brass rod test". It's interesting to hear it can be done with a fingernail!

 

[Krassi]

Most Old Knive Sharpeners in Germans Solingen had these Brass Rings because they would have had cuts in their Nails from permanent Testing but Nagelgaengig is a good term for this.. so sharp that it stays on the Nail

 

[Benuser]

Any sharp edge will stay on the nail. Here is meant a pressure by the nail on the edge that will temporarily deform the edge.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

If the term "to nail" doesn't yet have any meaning related to knives yet, let's just all use it pretending it has been common usage for a long time, until that becomes true.

 

[Badgertooth]

I think you've encountered one of the beauties of German. If you need a word, concatenate all the words that make up the concept and you're there:

Freundschaftsbezeigungen
Lebensabschnittpartner
Schadenfreude

As pointed out above there's lots of people describing what you're saying correctly but there is no one word that'll cover it.

Freundschaftsbezeigungen

 

[Dan P.]

One of the great beauties of English, and the key to its greatness as a world language, is that if it does not have a word for something it will just steal it from a language that does. Not many people realize that English is actually a creole, but that does explain its great flexibility.
If English were more Germanic, we would call this "onthenailflexing", but "flexing on the nail" is not too far off, I feel.

 

[Badgertooth]

One of the great beauties of English, and the key to its greatness as a world language, is that if it does not have a word for something it will just steal it from a language that does. Not many people realize that English is actually a creole, but that does explain its great flexibility.
If English were more Germanic, we would call this "onthenailflexing", but "flexing on the nail" is not too far off, I feel.

+1 A wordsmith too?

Onthenailhit there Dan.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

"nail compliant", "nail following" would probably be sensible translations...

 

[XooMG]

edge flex testing...there are different variants with different goals.

 

[Lizzardborn]

I think that the closest English equivalent is "singing blade". They test the same thing.

 

[Ruso]

One of the great beauties of English, and the key to its greatness as a world language, is that if it does not have a word for something it will just steal it from a language that does. Not many people realize that English is actually a creole, but that does explain its great flexibility.
If English were more Germanic, we would call this "onthenailflexing", but "flexing on the nail" is not too far off, I feel.

That's not really uncommon. All of the major languages have many words taken from others. Now many languages take words and terms from English
The greatest thing for English is how easy it is to learn (at least basics). No male/female/neutro in nouns. No declension, no conjugation. In real live you will only use about 5-6 tenses? So yea, perfect candidate to be a mass export product

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

The very literal one would be "nail-going-ish"

 

[mise_en_place]

One of the great beauties of English, and the key to its greatness as a world language, is that if it does not have a word for something it will just steal it from a language that does. Not many people realize that English is actually a creole, but that does explain its great flexibility.
If English were more Germanic, we would call this "onthenailflexing", but "flexing on the nail" is not too far off, I feel.

Great point about English. Japanese is also very good at taking in foreign words (They have a whole alphabet devoted to it).

That being said, English is not in any way a "creole" language if we are using the term "creole" in the linguistic sense. I imagine the point you're making is about English's many foreign influences like French after 1066.

 

[mise_en_place]

That's not really uncommon. All of the major languages have many words taken from others. Now many languages take words and terms from English
The greatest thing for English is how easy it is to learn (at least basics). No male/female/neutro in nouns. No declension, no conjugation. In real live you will only use about 5-6 tenses? So yea, perfect candidate to be a mass export product

Again, not to nitpick, but English absolutely has conjugations and some remnants of declension. For example, I is a subject word (nominative case for you Latin fans out there) but when used as a direct object (accusative), the word becomes me.

 

[Ruso]

Again, not to nitpick, but English absolutely has conjugations and some remnants of declension. For example, I is a subject word (nominative case for you Latin fans out there) but when used as a direct object (accusative), the word becomes me.

Well, you are nitpicking English conjugation is a "joke" (which is good) compared to other languages. Obviously, there are some irregular verbs that require memorization, had to memorize most of them when I was 12-13.

And the example of I, is an interesting one. Is not it technically a pronoun? Also, this example is a mastery of nitpicking...

If, you ask me, spelling is the sole most difficult part of English. But again, there is French!!

 

[DanHumphrey]

That's not really uncommon. All of the major languages have many words taken from others. Now many languages take words and terms from English
The greatest thing for English is how easy it is to learn (at least basics). No male/female/neutro in nouns. No declension, no conjugation. In real live you will only use about 5-6 tenses? So yea, perfect candidate to be a mass export product

Well... just very little of those. Still some. And still a bit of the subjunctive, though it's so rare that at least half of people who see it now just think it's wrong.

 

[mise_en_place]

Well, you are nitpicking English conjugation is a "joke" (which is good) compared to other languages. Obviously, there are some irregular verbs that require memorization, had to memorize most of them when I was 12-13.

And the example of I, is an interesting one. Is not it technically a pronoun? Also, this example is a mastery of nitpicking...

If, you ask me, spelling is the sole most difficult part of English. But again, there is French!!

I agree that English conjugation is easy, but it still exists was my point.

As for my example, I meant when you see the word "I" in a sentence, it is the subject of the sentence. That does not mean it isn't a pronoun. If you would like another example along the same vein: She (subject) her (object) and He (subject) him (object).

More common examples of declension in English include the possessive (genitive): Jorge's dog

or

One that nobody probably ever thinks about is how numbers of things are expressed: Dog vs. Dogs

I know I'm being a pain in the ass, but I just wanted to point out these things do exist.

 

[mise_en_place]

Well... just very little of those. Still some. And still a bit of the subjunctive, though it's so rare that at least half of people who see it now just think it's wrong.

May God bless you, Dan Humphrey. If I were there with you, I'd give you a high-five for recognizing the existence of a subjunctive in English.

^^ Two examples in bold of English subjunctive for anyone who cares.

 

[DanHumphrey]

May God bless you, Dan Humphrey. If I were there with you, I'd give you a high-five for recognizing the existence of a subjunctive in English.

^^ Two examples in bold of English subjunctive for anyone who cares.

Always a pleasure to meet someone else who cares about the language! :doublethumbsup:

 

[Dan P.]

That being said, English is not in any way a "creole" language if we are using the term "creole" in the linguistic sense. I imagine the point you're making is about English's many foreign influences like French after 1066.

English is absolutely a creole.
As you say, compare "English" pre-1066 and post, Old English with Middle English. They are different languages, and the difference is not just vocabulary, but an enormous simplification of grammar, and also a shift in figurative and idiomatic language. Exactly how these changes happened is open to debate- an Old English/Romano-British creole may have already been spoken pre 1066, for instance.
Anyway, who knows, but it's interesting to speculate.

 

[mise_en_place]

English is absolutely a creole.
As you say, compare "English" pre-1066 and post, Old English with Middle English. They are different languages, and the difference is not just vocabulary, but an enormous simplification of grammar, and also a shift in figurative and idiomatic language. Exactly how these changes happened is open to debate- an Old English/Romano-British creole may have already been spoken pre 1066, for instance.
Anyway, who knows, but it's interesting to speculate.

Sorry, Dan, but English is absolutely not a creole. While there are plenty of English-based creoles (Gullah and Singlish are a couple examples), the definition of a creole is a mother tongue that comes from a pidgin language. Without a pidgin language, there is no creole.

While I imagine you and I can agree borrowing vocabulary does not constitute a creole, the fact of the matter is that morphological changes (as you put it, "simplification of grammar") do not make English a creole either. If that were the case, every Indo-European language would be a creole.

In fact, morphological changes, such as loss of inflections, were already well under way before the arrival of the Normans, and continued through the 13th century.

Some further evidence that English was not and is not a creole language:

1. Existence of over 200 ablaut verbs in Modern English.

2. Continued use of weak/strong adjective declensions from Old English into Middle English.

 

[Dan P.]

To address your point concerning the simplification of English grammer (or as you put it "morphological changes"), these alone do not make English a creole, no, but the circumstances in which it came about do (cf Afrikaans vs. Dutch).
Concerning ablaut verbs and weak/strong adjective declensions, I don't believe their presence would exclude a language from being a creole. Like most creoles I'm sure there was at the time, as there is still, a spectrum between acrolect and basilect (in this case inverted).
But anyway, you seem to be knowledgeable in these things, so I will concede you this argumet whilst maintaining my belief in English as a creole. If I'm wrong it's an ignorance of a pretty harmless sort.