Looking to buy quality knives

[JXLT47]

So, I've been thinking about investing in a few quality knives. I am a part-time barbecue caterer and My cooking practices vary from trimming and smoking 40 Boston butts at a time, often times pork ribs, whole beef briskets, beef short ribs, butchering and smoking whole hogs or sometimes pork shoulders. However at home, I cook everything from Thai to Italian to French food with a little country cooking thrown in. I had considered a set of Shun knives...then I found this forum and the journey began.

So...on to the questionnaire...


LOCATION
What country are you in? United States



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? I'm thinking a 270mm Gyuto, 120-150mm petty, 150mm Honesuki, and a 270-300mm Sujihiki

Are you right or left handed? Left handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? See question 1 above (guess I got a little too descriptive in that question)

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) I don't think so. I shave daily with a carbon steel straight razor and have yet to have one rust.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? Maybe up to 1500.00 or so for all of the above



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? More frequently at home but when I do use it in a profession environment it's several hours of prep at a time

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Chef's knife-slicing, chopping, mincing fruits and vegetables
Petty knife-mincing/dicing shallots, garlic, green onions, chives
Honesuki-boning poultry, pork, beef
Sujihiki-slicing brisket and other meats for service

What knife, if any, are you replacing? I have about 10 different Dexter-Russell Sani-whatever

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) mostly pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) rocking, sometimes push, pull and chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? I like aesthetics but I like kurouchi, Damascus, and appreciate a lot of aesthetic styles but don't really have a favorite or a prerequisite

Comfort (e.g.,; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? A handle that isn't textured plastic, smooth/rounded spine and choil

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? Less wedging, better food release

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
The longer the better but I'm not expecting something unrealistic

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Yes, wood, bamboo and occasionally plastic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes

 

[mikedtran]

Just as a though breakdown of max $ per knife (of your total $1500):
300 Suji - $500
270 Gyuto - $600
150 Petty - $200
150 Honesuki - $200

That all said and though I didn't follow this piece of advice when I started - I'd probably recommend getting Gyuto/Suji around the ~$200-$300 range and grabbing some decent stones ~$100-$200 total and learning to sharpen. After I spent a ridiculous amount of money on knives I finally started sharpening and I am even more in love with my knives now. The nice thing about getting "cheaper" ($200 instead of $500) knives is you won't be as concerned about scratching them up when you sharpen.

For the Honesuki if you email them directly they have one left in stores at $155 USD shipped (http://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-koishi/products/masakage-koishi-as-honesuki-150mm). Many members have posted favorable reviews of this knife. I just bought one myself at $155 shipped.

 

[JXLT47]

Just as a though breakdown of max $ per knife (of your total $1500):
300 Suji - $500
270 Gyuto - $600
150 Petty - $200
150 Honesuki - $200

That all said and though I didn't follow this piece of advice when I started - I'd probably recommend getting Gyuto/Suji around the ~$200-$300 range and grabbing some decent stones ~$100-$200 total and learning to sharpen. After I spent a ridiculous amount of money on knives I finally started sharpening and I am even more in love with my knives now. The nice thing about getting "cheaper" ($200 instead of $500) knives is you won't be as concerned about scratching them up when you sharpen.

For the Honesuki if you email them directly they have one left in stores at $155 USD shipped (http://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-koishi/products/masakage-koishi-as-honesuki-150mm). Many members have posted favorable reviews of this knife. I just bought one myself at $155 shipped.

I had first considered Takedas but from some of the info I've read, they may not be a good fit for me. However, It's funny you recommend Masakage knives because they have also made it onto my short list. I like the appearance of the Koishi and the Shimo lines. I really wish I could put my hands on a few to get a feel for them. I may have to take a road trip somewhere for that.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

Considering you like Kurouchi finish and live in the US, i would definitely try a Kochi gyuto. The only problem is, maybe, if you try to rock it (never tried that). Mine is not stainless clad and it is very reactive. I don't mind as it cuts like a dream. But now, there's the stainless clad version.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...270mm-kurouchi-stainless-clad-carbon-wa-gyuto

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/kochi/products/kochi-270mm-kurouchi-wa-gyuto

 

[JXLT47]

Considering you like Kurouchi finish and live in the US, i would definitely try a Kochi gyuto. The only problem is, maybe, if you try to rock it (never tried that). Mine is not stainless clad and it is very reactive. I don't mind as it cuts like a dream. But now, there's the stainless clad version.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...270mm-kurouchi-stainless-clad-carbon-wa-gyuto

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/kochi/products/kochi-270mm-kurouchi-wa-gyuto

I actually like the idea of a little reactivity and I'm not sure about the stainless. Has anyone here had any experience with Coutelier in New Orleans, LA? I'm thinking about a road trip to fondle some cutlery. Can anyone describe the texture (hand feel) of the kurouchi finish? I'm a little OCD about some textures?

 

[Smurfmacaw]

Wow, nice budget......You can get some really nice knives for that. For the Gyuto, look at Ian Rogers monosteel knives....great cutters and in your budget....get the performance grind...trust me on that one, the best cutter I have bar none. Otherwise you can get some really good knives for your budget.

 

[JXLT47]

Well...my theory is buy once, cry once. I would rather drop 600.00 on a knife that I'm happy with and will serve me the rest of my life than continue to buy cheap crappy knives. I've learned that quality and durability is one of those things that is well worth investing in. However, those look a little too pretty for my liking and I also like the idea of being able to upgrade to something else later on...after I have experienced a few knives from different makers and know what works for me and what doesn't.

 

[Dardeau]

Coutelier has a slim selection, some Takedas, some popular rebrands, they keep talking about adding Masagake, but I haven't seen them yet. It is a nice store, with nice people, but not a lot of stock.

 

[JXLT47]

Coutelier has a slim selection, some Takedas, some popular rebrands, they keep talking about adding Masagake, but I haven't seen them yet. It is a nice store, with nice people, but not a lot of stock.

Thanks Dardeau, I really am leaning toward Masakage based on the reviews I have read in multiple forums. I supposed I could order a Gyuto and see what I think before I pull the trigger on multiple knives.

 

[Tobes]

My call for the petty is ashi ginga or JKIs Gesshin version...got a 150 mm stainless...fantastic little knife and looks great with wa handle. Cuts like a dream, sharpens easily ...it does not have a lot of height, though, if thats a matter of concern. From what I read you could also go for the white 2 version.

 

[JXLT47]

My call for the petty is ashi ginga or JKIs Gesshin version...got a 150 mm stainless...fantastic little knife and looks great with wa handle. Cuts like a dream, sharpens easily ...it does not have a lot of height, though, if thats a matter of concern. From what I read you could also go for the white 2 version.

I looked around at a lot of knives from JKI and really liked the Gesshin but every time I'm on their site they don't have many in stock. Do you have any experience with their Gyuto or sujihiki?

 

[Bill13]

Coutelier has a slim selection, some Takedas, some popular rebrands, they keep talking about adding Masagake, but I haven't seen them yet. It is a nice store, with nice people, but not a lot of stock.

This is my theory in life too. Knives are a bit tricky however, because there is so much variability and these seemingly small differences can make it a knife you love or just like. Profiles, heel height, steel type, grind. What I have done is buy nice knives on BST with the idea that if I don't like it I can always sell it. That being said so far I have not sold any, and it's becoming a problem.

Starting out you won't really know what you like, so that is were the counter argument comes in; buy several less expensive knives with different profiles and such and see what is best for you. Once decided sell the others and if you want to start looking for a higher end knife that is similar to the knife you liked.

 

[toddnmd]

Bill already made the point that I was going to make--it's hard to know which knife you're going to love. I've bought and sold numerous knives over the past few years. My growing collection shows that my selling is not keeping up with my buying. It's hard to know which knife you're going to really love without trying a few out. And some knives seem really great at first, but over time that feeling fades. My collection is stabilizing, in part because the ones I keep are the ones that I know I really like, based on my own experience.
If you can just buy a few good ones and not look back, good for you. Your budget allows for you to get some top quality steel. I personally think you could do quite well on an even lower budget--there are some very nice $200-300 gyutos out there.

 

[johnstoc]

You mentioned JKI - give Jon a call, super helpful and knowledgeable. There may be stock not yet listed or he could point you to some killer options that are in stock.

A few others here nailed it, there are awesome knives in the $200-300 range that will allow you to learn what you like and are absolutely top-notch knives (to your point about buying quality tools once.) You'll be more willing to scratch it when learning to freehand sharpen, not that scratches are even an issue or that they can't be removed anyways.

If you have the budget, $200 gets you a legit sharpening setup. Get a medium (1000-ish) and fine (5000 ish) grit stones. Maybe also a low grit. And get a diamond flattening plate. can provide recommendations if you'd like.

 

[JXLT47]

You mentioned JKI - give Jon a call, super helpful and knowledgeable. There may be stock not yet listed or he could point you to some killer options that are in stock.

A few others here nailed it, there are awesome knives in the $200-300 range that will allow you to learn what you like and are absolutely top-notch knives (to your point about buying quality tools once.) You'll be more willing to scratch it when learning to freehand sharpen, not that scratches are even an issue or that they can't be removed anyways.

If you have the budget, $200 gets you a legit sharpening setup. Get a medium (1000-ish) and fine (5000 ish) grit stones. Maybe also a low grit. And get a diamond flattening plate. can provide recommendations if you'd like.

I should have mentioned that my budget wasn't for knives only but also for a sharpening setup. So, recommendations for that would be awesome. I also have several straight razors I would also like to be able to sharpen instead of sending them off.

 

[johnstoc]

The JKI set is great. I have the course and medium stones from that set and will buy them again when i need to replace.

Another often recommended set is a Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Suehiro Rika 5k. It's a little less expensive. I'd say buy them from Dave Martell but he recently closed his store. Others could provide a good link to purchase from.

For a diamond flattening plate, Atoma 140 is one of the best. I've been happy with the JKI Diamond Flattening plate but it's currently out of stock.

There are some cheaper options but if you have the budget and don't want to upgrade later I think either of these would be a good choice. Then all you need is this playlist, a sharpie, and some patience and you'll be set!

I haven't sharpened straight razors so I can't comment there. Hopefully others can contribute.

 

[chinacats]

Straights should be fine with what you start with for knives plus one more stone. You'll likely want something at least 10k and rather hard...or you can usually find a decent natural finisher from JNS for not too much money...cheap way out is chinese stone found at hardware store though these are definitely hit or miss (and the hits aren't great but acceptable). Assume you already have a decent strop?

 

[JXLT47]

johnstoc,
Thanks for the recommendation, it looks to be a pretty great set and a pretty good price too. I plan to contact JKI about some knives. I have watched several of his videos and the Gesshin Ginga line looks like a good value for a quality beginner knife. When I order I will probably pick up the stone set.

Chinacats,
I will probably eventually add a 10,000 grit stone as well. I do have a good cordovan strop with a rock wool 2nd strop with green stropping paste on one side. I was really surprised to see a video of someone stropping a knife. It never dawned on me that it could be useful for both.

Thank you both (and everyone else so far) for the great advice. I've been a long time lurker on this site but this is my first post/thread. It seems as if there are a great group of people on here.

 

[Tobes]

Did not use a Ginga Gyuto myself but the German kitchen knife crowd absolutely loves them. Never read anything but enthusiastic praise. You can also get one atm from Blueway Japan on eBay and a swiss Internet store always seems to have ample supply. http://www.japanische-kochmesser.ch...no-Wa-Sujihiki-270mm-Schwedenstahl::3478.html

 

[Tobes]

Oh...and my vote regarding stones goes to Atoma 140, Naniwa Pro 1000 and JNS 6000. Tried a few cheaper ones before those but these are definite game changers for me. Can't recommend any others from personal experience but from what I read pretty much any stone from JKI, JNS or Naniwa Pro (without the 5000 and 10000, supposedly) should do the job perfectly.

 

[JXLT47]

Well I sent Jon at JKI (what I considered to be) a lengthy email describing what I was looking for. What I received in response blew my mind. A few people I have talked to previously have basically recommended what I said I wanted to buy. However, Jon replied with a thoroughly detailed email describing the knives that fit my needs and why they were a good fit. The ironic thing is that the knives he suggested were about 25% of what I had planned to spend on knives and close to half of what I had planned to spend on a set of Shuns. That kind of customer attention is almost unheard of. He even told me that I had the option of having my knives modified for my left-handedness (is that a word?). So, I'm definitely going with a few of his suggestions, and at the amount I saved, I can upgrade to something else later if I need to do so. Thanks for all the help guys and thanks to Jon for his excellent pre-customer service.