Macro - Micro

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Find deals on amazon
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Keithpaints

Keithpaints

KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2023
Messages
523
Reaction score
1,246
Location
Hawaii
Science rant
We as humans relate to our environment as a scale for size. We have developed telescopes of many different types. Because of Hubble & James Webb We know that observable universe contains billions of galaxies.

The observable universe is thought to be 93 billion light years in diameter. The distance a light year can travel in one Earth year is 5.88 trillion miles. Our sun is 93 million miles away it takes around 8 minutes for sunlight to reach Earth. Give or take as Earth spins on tilted axis on elliptical orbit around the Sun. The ultimate size of the Universe is a mystery.
It is possible that it has no boundaries to infinity.

The smallest unit we know of is the atom.
We have developed powerful scanning cryogenic electron microscopes that can look at the very small
20240330_125927.jpg
20240330_125927.jpg
20240330_125927.jpg
 
Neutri said:
Hey, I'm curious what you mean by unit. Way smaller particles have been discovered and isolated
Click to expand...
I would amend it to say the smallest unit of matter that is stable under human-livable conditions (temperatures, pressures).
 
aporigine said:
I would amend it to say the smallest unit of matter that is stable under human-livable conditions (temperatures, pressures).
Click to expand...
I don't really see the reason to restrain matter to human-livable conditions but then in that case I'm curious what you mean by "stable". I don't think it matters much as at the particle level, pressures and temperatures have no meanings. Electrons or even protons* (aka H⁺) are stable under human-livable conditions just to use the most well-known ones. A more obscure one would be neutrinos.

*Theories indicates that protons can decay but it hasn't been proven yet.
 
Neutri said:
I don't really see the reason to restrain matter to human-livable conditions but then in that case I'm curious what you mean by "stable". I don't think it matters much as at the particle level, pressures and temperatures have no meanings. Electrons or even protons* (aka H⁺) are stable under human-livable conditions just to use the most well-known ones. A more obscure one would be neutrinos.

*Theories indicates that protons can decay but it hasn't been proven yet.
Click to expand...
Electrons would reduce oxygen to superoxide.

Protons in any fluid or gas are extreme Lewis acids. Probably only helium is proof against forming a coordinative bond with naked proton, and I’m not even sure about that.

(add) even helium reacts exothermically with proton!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_hydride_ion

Neutrinos, now … good one!
 
Atoms as a unit define different types of matter. The core or nucleus composed of protons & neutrons positive force orbiting electrons negative force. There is a lot of space between the two in the very small. Quarks are smallest part of matter breaking down protons & neutrons. We can't actually see this atoms are so small even high light source. We can infer the properties of matter by different positive negative numbers both in the core & the electrons. I read somewhere that at atomic level we are mostly space.
 
aporigine said:
Protons in any fluid or gas are extreme Lewis acids. Probably only helium is proof against forming a coordinative bond with naked proton, and I’m not even sure about that.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know. I was thinking about HCl in water which would give H⁺ + Cl⁻. And which would be stable in solution wouldn't it? I'm no chemist so I could be wrong. But I do see your point that if it's in solution, it wouldn't be under human-livable conditions.

I still don't see why limit ourselves to human-livable conditions when talking about macro stuff it's never under human-livable condtions but I see your point :)

Yeah but for neutrinos there are many arguments to no consider them really a unit. you can't build anything from it for instance
 
Neutri said:
Yeah I know. I was thinking about HCl in water which would give H⁺ + Cl⁻. And which would be stable in solution wouldn't it? I'm no chemist so I could be wrong. But I do see your point that if it's in solution, it wouldn't be under human-livable conditions.

I still don't see why limit ourselves to human-livable conditions when talking about macro stuff it's never under human-livable condtions but I see your point :)

Yeah but for neutrinos there are many arguments to no consider them really a unit. you can't build anything from it for instance
Click to expand...
Strong acids in water will generate H3O+ (simplification; protonated water forms a variety of short-lived noncovalent species). FSO3H+ is the strongest species stable in solution of which I know. Chemists (I’m a retired one) call it magic acid.

My prejudice toward biocompatible conditions is probably driven by having been a medicinal chemist, Though all my life I’ve had a strong affinity for astronomy. The sun exhales lotsa fast naked protons.

1711855872445.gif
 
Keithpaints said:
Atoms as a unit define different types of matter. The core or nucleus composed of protons & neutrons positive force orbiting electrons negative force. There is a lot of space between the two in the very small. Quarks are smallest part of matter breaking down protons & neutrons. We can't actually see this atoms are so small even high light source. We can infer the properties of matter by different positive negative numbers both in the core & the electrons. I read somewhere that at atomic level we are mostly space.
Click to expand...
In that case the statement would be false. Atoms don't really define anything. Elemental particles such as quarks, leptons, bosons would. And using those particles, you can build everything: hadrons (such as protons/neutrons) atoms (when you add electrons) but much more (pions, mesons etc).

The part where an atom is mostly empty space indeed. If you compressed the entire matter on earth to fill that empty space, it would be able to fill a normal dice.
 
Last edited:
aporigine said:
Strong acids in water will generate H3O+ (simplification; protonated water forms a variety of short-lived noncovalent species). FSO3H+ is the strongest species stable in solution of which I know. Chemists (I’m a retired one) call it magic acid.

My prejudice toward biocompatible conditions is probably driven by having been a medicinal chemist, Though all my life I’ve had a strong affinity for astronomy. The sun exhales lotsa fast naked protons.

View attachment 311852
Click to expand...
I see. Thanks for the explanation. I never liked adding water to my equations when studying so I left it as H+

I see, yeah makes sense then. As a particle physicist, conditions like these never cross my mind 😂

Truth be told, I was just challenging the fact that atoms are widely considered the building blocks of everything when there is a fascinating (no i'm not biased😇) world that happens at a much smaller scale
 
Well I'm certainly not a Particle Physicist
or a Chemist. Have a lay Interest in science. Favorite coarse ever was Geology of Hawaii Volcanos in the Sea.

Since great courses have Astronomy, Geology, Paleontology, Biology. I know they have one on introduction to Particle Physics & Basic Chemistry & elements. One thing I realized is that Geology & Biology are different sciences, and are totally interconnected there would be no life without Geology. Guess my science courses will be added to next 80% sale.

My father worked for NACA later after Russians sent up sputnik became NASA. I'm visually oriented find the extraordinary in the ordinary. Was able to draw well from small kid time. Airbrushed surfboards, had a thriving ice carving side business, now oil paint in my retirement.
20230903_233129.jpg
 
Neutri said:
In that case the statement would be false. Atoms don't really define anything. Elemental particles such as quarks, leptons, bosons would. And using those particles, you can build everything: hadrons (such as protons/neutrons) atoms (when you add electrons) but much more (pions, mesons etc).

The part where an atom is mostly empty space indeed. If you compressed the entire matter on earth to fill that empty space, it would be able to fill a normal dice.
Click to expand...
Dissenting opinion. You’d have a sphere about half a km in diameter.

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com...s divided by,density, which makes 59720000 m³.

Perhaps you’re thinking of the Schwarzschild radius of one earth mass, which computes to 9mm. This will fit in an 18mm die (which then instantly collapses and emits a coupla terajoules of hard gamma).
 
I do know that helium is abundant in stars one of most common elements with hydrogen. It is fairly rare on our rocky water planet. Most in the upper strata of atmosphere. It is extracted from natural gas. Has use in specialized fields. Not just balloons & Air Ships.
 
aporigine said:
Dissenting opinion. You’d have a sphere about half a km in diameter.

https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/27403/how-big-should-be-a-piece-of-neutron-star-to-reach-earths-mass#:~:text=Volume is mass divided by,density, which makes 59720000 m³.

Perhaps you’re thinking of the Schwarzschild radius of one earth mass, which computes to 9mm. This will fit in an 18mm die (which then instantly collapses and emits a coupla terajoules of hard gamma).
Click to expand...
I'm neither talking about black holes nor neutron stars. I'm saying if there was no empty space inside atoms which wouldn't be a possible thing. But from your answer I went to check my sources and indeed I remembered wrong. It'd be much bigger than a dice but I did find a few different results and so can't say for sure what size it'd be without doing my own calculations. In any case, we can agree that hadronic matter is mainly empty space.
 
Keithpaints said:
I do know that helium is abundant in stars one of most common elements with hydrogen. It is fairly rare on our rocky water planet. Most in the upper strata of atmosphere. It is extracted from natural gas. Has use in specialized fields. Not just balloons & Air Ships.
Click to expand...
Liquid helium has a remarkably low heat of vaporization. We had a coupla big magnets in the basement of the chemistry department. Once in a while, one would get a wee bit warm, and the energy stored in the coil would turn into heat all at once, and many liters of helium would go (almost) thump. I’ve wondered since then of it presented an asphyxiation hazard. My mind careens toward a tableau of grad students telling each other to get OUT with comedic helium voices.
 
aporigine said:
Liquid helium has a remarkably low heat of vaporization. We had a coupla big magnets in the basement of the chemistry department. Once in a while, one would get a wee bit warm, and the energy stored in the coil would turn into heat all at once, and many liters of helium would go (almost) thump. I’ve wondered since then of it presented an asphyxiation hazard. My mind careens toward a tableau of grad students telling each other to get OUT with comedic helium voices.
Click to expand...
That would be hilarious (granted no one gets hurt ofc) but helium is lighter than air and so would go to the top of the room so it should probably be fine. Unless you get an really huge amount in a closed room.

I work with another noble gaz, Argon. In that case, Argon is heavier than air and so would replace the air at human height and that's a hazard especially since we work with kilotons of it.

As a side note, here is the asphyxiation hazard pictogram. The first time I saw it, I laughed
1711909624472.png
 
Last edited:
hazard signs are often funny, alarms too...long ago I worked on some stuff involving a hazardous compound (similar to what broke loose in Bhopal) 'but we have a gas monitor that will alert any spills'...needless to say that the level of detection was about a thousand fold over the toxicity level...
 
Neutri said:
That would be hilarious (granted no one gets hurt ofc) but helium is lighter than air and so would go to the top of the room so it should probably be fine. Unless you get an really huge amount in a closed room.

I work with another noble gaz, Argon. In that case, Argon is heavier than air and so would replace the air at human height and that's a hazard especially since we work with kilotons of it.

As a side note, here is the asphyxiation hazard pictogram. The first time I saw it, I laughed
View attachment 311985
Click to expand...
That’s me 3am on a Sunday
 
MarcelNL said:
hazard signs are often funny, alarms too...long ago I worked on some stuff involving a hazardous compound (similar to what broke loose in Bhopal) 'but we have a gas monitor that will alert any spills'...needless to say that the level of detection was about a thousand fold over the toxicity level...
Click to expand...
Yeah, there are smells I should not be able to recognize. I’m fairly delighted that I don’t look like a big bag of almonds by now.

I recall an apocryphal tale about a biochem postdoc who happened to be exposed to a fair whack of tritium. First aid was sitting him down with a case of beer, since the isotope stays in the aqueous compartment. I wonder if his angels of mercy remembered to include a big bag of sour cream and chive potato chips.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top