"Masamotos" that I have never seen before?

[Martyn]

I recently came across a guy selling used Masamotos online. He claimed that the two knives at the picture below are Masamoto Debas - to be honest, I have never seen any Masamoto with such engravings. So I did some research online but still could not find any Masamoto knives like those.

Wondering if anyone has come across those. are they indeed Masamotos that I have never seen before, or are they something else?
he is also selling a 270mm Masamoto deba (shown below). I could not find such big Masamoto deba anywhere on the Internet so I began questioning its genuity. am I thinking too much? - maybe Masamoto used to make Debas of such size but later on discontinued?

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

I don't know if it's my browser or your picture. The kanjis in your first picture seem too blurry to read.

 

[Martyn]

I don't know if it's my browser or your picture. The kanjis in your first picture seem too blurry to read.

thank you for the feedback. just uploaded another picture, clearer than the previous one.

 

[Qapla']

he is also selling a 270mm Masamoto deba (shown below). I could not find such big Masamoto deba anywhere on the Internet so I began questioning its genuity. am I thinking too much? - maybe Masamoto used to make Debas of such size but later on discontinued?

Masamoto Sohonten makes white-steel deba's up to 300mm. A 270mm is listed in their catalog as item KS2027.

 

[Martyn]

Masamoto Sohonten makes white-steel deba's up to 300mm. A 270mm is listed in their catalog as item KS2027.

Thank you. that is very helpful. wondering if you have any idea on the other two debas that he claimed to be Masamoto?

 

[KenHash]

The two old Debas above do not say Masamoto. The writing is not Kanji, it is Hiragana. Furthermore the last character is the old form of "Ya" that is no longer used. I can not even reproduce it on my keyboard.
Those Debas say KAMAYA. Using current Hiragana it would be かまや。
You may want to ask the seller why they say KAMAYA if they are Masamotos.
It may be possible that there is some connection between the brand names but I'm not aware of any.

If you could post closer clearer photos that show the writiing above the Hitragana maybe there is another clue there.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

I would stay away from those 2 debas unless someone knows exactly what those are tells otherwise. Those engravings are not masamoto kanji or hiragana.

 

[xxxclx]

the first two debas are most likely from Kamata. The kanji says 合羽橋　かまた

 

[adam92]

I recently came across a guy selling used Masamotos online. He claimed that the two knives at the picture below are Masamoto Debas - to be honest, I have never seen any Masamoto with such engravings. So I did some research online but still could not find any Masamoto knives like those.
View attachment 105643
View attachment 105628
Wondering if anyone has come across those. are they indeed Masamotos that I have never seen before, or are they something else?
he is also selling a 270mm Masamoto deba (shown below). I could not find such big Masamoto deba anywhere on the Internet so I began questioning its genuity. am I thinking too much? - maybe Masamoto used to make Debas of such size but later on discontinued?
View attachment 105632

This is miroshi deba, i would suggest hon deba for fillet fish, yanagiba for sashimi, miroshi deba people kind of doing sashimi & fillet within one knife.

Another two picture from i can tell is not from Masamoto, kanji showingかまた( KAMATA). I've been to this store when i visit tokyo two years ago, they don't relate with Masamoto.

Maybe Masamoto use to forge the knife for them & rebrand. But I'm not sure about it.

For me, If I'm choosing an knife, I would consider what fish I gonna cut most to decide what size suit for me, but I'm working in professional kitchen , home cook maybe different. Hope my answer can help.

 

[KenHash]

Ha!! Kamata in Kappabashi. Haven't been there in 10 years.This exercise shows the necessity to have clear photographs.
The Seller should be able to explain if any relation between these Kamata branded knives and Masamoto.

 

[adam92]

Ha!! Kamata in Kappabashi. Haven't been there in 10 years.This exercise shows the necessity to have clear photographs.
The Seller should be able to explain if any relation between these Kamata branded knives and Masamoto.

Is true, I can't barely see the clear photo, have to zoom out very big.

 

[Martyn]

Is true, I can't barely see the clear photo, have to zoom out very big.

my apologies for the photo quality - because i do not have the knives at hand, i had to ask the buyer to take them for me...

 

[Martyn]

the first two debas are most likely from Kamata. The kanji says 合羽橋　かまた

View attachment 105657

thank you so much. that should be it, the kanji looks the same as the ones on the knives. given that Kamata is a knife shop, wondering whether it subcontracts some products to Masamoto...

 

[Martyn]

This is miroshi deba, i would suggest hon deba for fillet fish, yanagiba for sashimi, miroshi deba people kind of doing sashimi & fillet within one knife.

Another two picture from i can tell is not from Masamoto, kanji showingかまた( KAMATA). I've been to this store when i visit tokyo two years ago, they don't relate with Masamoto.

Maybe Masamoto use to forge the knife for them & rebrand. But I'm not sure about it.

For me, If I'm choosing an knife, I would consider what fish I gonna cut most to decide what size suit for me, but I'm working in professional kitchen , home cook maybe different. Hope my answer can help.

thank you for the helpful advice about knife selection! i guess i will check with the seller about the relationship with the knife shop and masamoto. cheers!

 

[Corradobrit1]

This was a new one on me. I've not seen another example with 'S' on the left. I assume thats for Swedish steel. Vintage?

 

[Martyn]

Ha!! Kamata in Kappabashi. Haven't been there in 10 years.This exercise shows the necessity to have clear photographs.
The Seller should be able to explain if any relation between these Kamata branded knives and Masamoto.

sorry for the photo quality....had to ask the seller for photos cos i do not have them at hand...i will definitely check with the seller. cheers!

 

[Byphy]

This was a new one on me. I've not seen another example with 'S' on the left. I assume thats for Swedish steel. Vintage?


View attachment 105671

View attachment 105672

My petty from Korin has the s on the backside neck too. It's not vintage, it's on all the stainless models

 

[nwshull]

My petty from Korin has the s on the backside neck too. It's not vintage, it's on all the stainless models

Pretty sure it stands for swedish. Don't think its vintage, just think its a stainless steel that uses swedish ore. Nice, not amazing.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/masamoto-ks-on-rakuten.21922/#post-345634

 

[KenHash]

The "S" stamp is found on not just Kitchen knives but some older vintage outdoor knives that were made in Japan. I have always though this meant Stainless. You don't see Swedish steel being used on outdoor knives made in Japan.

 

[Jason183]

Those unknown Deba knives not Masamoto brand, the seller probably doesn’t know what brand either, maby he listed it as Masamoto since it’s quite popular brand.

 

[Martyn]

Those unknown Deba knives not Masamoto brand, the seller probably doesn’t know what brand either, maby he listed it as Masamoto since it’s quite popular brand.

thanks mate. I figured it could be a house brand of Kamata - saw a guy posting photos of the shop and the deba was on display beside Masamoto, and their profiles are quite similar -