MINIMALISM: In search of The ONE STONE setup.

[chinacats]

With the Gesshin 400 and 4000, I would have thought that it's too far of a jump between grit?

Must trust the JKI mojo... :ninja:

 

[Justin0505]

Geez, lots to think about. Halfway through the thread I was kinda leaning towards just getting the Gesshin 2K or Bester 1200k and seeing how that went.

But a few have mentioned getting both the 400 and 4000 Gesshins, or both the Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5000. With the Gesshin 400 and 4000, I would have thought that it's too far of a jump between grit? I've not handled many different stones.

On one had abrasion is really a pretty simple thing and basically caveman tech (we are talking about rubbing things on rocks). But like anything, once you start to slide down that rabbit hole things start to get weirdly complex real fast.

One of the biggest incorrect assumptions that I bought into when I first started sharpening is that you needed to use lots of stones and take very small steps between grits so that you are removing all of the scratches from the previous grit before moving onto the next. This is true for polishing and perhaps sharpening shaving razors or ophthalmic scalpels, but with kitchen edges there is often a benefit from leaving some of the scratches from previous grits.
Think of the scratches from the coarser stone like serrations but just on a microscopic level. If you stopped your sharpening with the coarsest stone you would have an edge that cut very aggressively, but not cleanly as it would be ripping and sawing it's way though. When you jump up to a much finer grit, what you are doing is sharpening / refining the edges of the "teeth" left behind from the coarser stone (or putting smaller teeth on the edges of the bigger teeth). Skipping the in-between stones means that you are not wasting time/metal on wearing away those nice aggressive teeth. The end result is an edge that still cuts very aggressively but also much more cleanly will less drag and tearing.
One of the keys to this combo is having stones with very consistent grit size and distribution so you get an even scratch pattern and mix of scratches on your final edged.

On thinking about my own collection and combos that I use for different tasks, I realized that another place that you might be missing something with the Gesshin 400/4000 combo is when you're thinning behind the edge. The 400 makes quick work of thinning is a very forgiving stone so that even with moderated technique / skill you can create and nice, even looked finish. However, the 4000 is a very hard stone and while I fine it a pleasure to use on the edge, it is very difficult to use on the sides of a double bevel knife for creating am even polish. It creates very bright scratches and the hardness of the stone and non-existent mud means that every little human wobble and slight unevenness in the blade will show in the finish that it creates.
When polishing the sides of a blade after thinning, I typically use Dave's synthetic blue aoto.
However, wet-dry sandpaper is perhaps even easier.

 

[Matus]

From the point og view opf my limited experince - it comes down to whether you need a dedicated thinning stone (sub 1000 gritt) or not. If you take care of your knives regularly, than you may not need such a stone. If that is the case that a 1k/6k combination stone would be a good choice. The Gesshin 1k/6k would be probably the best, but I have made good experience with Bester 1k/6k stone too.

If you do need to do some thinning more regularly, than maybe a combination of 600 & 6k from Gesshin could do what you need in a 2 stone setup. Give Jon a call or drop him an email - he was considering making a 600/6k combinatin stone, though I do not know the status of that.

Another choice could be a JNS 800 which is supposed to cut very fast and than add whatever higher grit stone you want/need.

When I was doing this choice few months back I have decided to get 3 stones (Gesshin 400, 2k, 6k) and could not be happier.

 

[jgraeff]

I think the best all around stone is the gesshin 4k.

It cuts extremely fast and leaves a super fine edge but with plenty of teeth.

As mentioned above unless you will need a thinning stone you shouldn't need more than one. The 2k or 4k would suffice. Although I think the 4k is the best all around for only having one.

 

[spaceconvoy]

As mentioned above unless you will need a thinning stone you shouldn't need more than one. The 2k or 4k would suffice. Although I think the 4k is the best all around for only having one.

+1

I lived for a while with just a Rika, and it was good. Assuming you're not rough on your knives and flatten some during every sharpening session, I don't see how using only one higher grit stone would be a problem. You'll work harder and wear it out faster, but if I was forced to have only one stone, I'd prefer that than to living with just a 1k edge.

 

[EdipisReks]

The only Gesshin stones I've used are 400 and 8000. I really like both, and the Gesshin 8k has replaced all the finishing stones I've owned (including a very nice natural). Of the stones that I own, the only one I would consider a "one stop shop" is the Chosera 1000. It's a great stone, though it tends to put a tenacious burr on knives, in my experience. That's more a good thing, than a bad thing, once you have it removed, as the edges tend to be very stable. I could be happy with a Chosera 1k and a strop, as long as I didn't have to correct knives.

 

[CompE]

... With the Gesshin 400 and 4000, I would have thought that it's too far of a jump between grit?

I am not going to disagree with Justin; if you like leaving lower-grit scratches in your progression, then that's great.

I just want to add that if you prefer to remove all of the previous stones scratches is your goal then this still isn't too big of a jump in grit with the right stones. If the coarser stone leaves a finish that is finer than its grit rating, and if the finer grit stone cuts faster than its grit rating, then you can make a bigger jump more easily. You will probably spend a little extra time using the finer stone, but that may be acceptable to you if you are trying to minimize the number of stones that you use.

 

[joetbn]

How about the JKS 3K splash and go?

 

[DitmasPork]

Will contact Jon when he has more time on his hands to ask his advice—thinking about the Gessing 2k for now. Though the 1k/6k would give me more range, I do like the feel/aesthetic of a single, solid stone. Must admit that part of how I buy products is based on looks—since I'm a designer by trade.

Just curious, but I'm surprised no one has recommended the "Red Brick," isn't it often touted as a great "house stone" for restaurants?

 

[spaceconvoy]

Just curious, but I'm surprised no one has recommended the "Red Brick," isn't it often touted as a great "house stone" for restaurants?

Meh, I was unimpressed with mine. Only slightly faster/dish resistant than a King 1k, with worse feedback. At least the King makes a proper mud, the red brick just sheds grit. I believe "great house stone" is marketing-speak for cheap and huge.

 

[panda]

I would love to use just a single stone but that's just not plausible as i like to thin as i go. Two stone however is something i am striving for. A coarse and a medium. Currently finishing on jks 3k. for initial 'opening' up i like to have an extra coarse otherwise it takes far too long for me to tolerate.