Name that Stone

[More_Gyutos]

Wondering if anyone can help ID this stone of mine. I bought it about 12 years ago I think I purchased it online either from Manny's Woodworking or Korin. I *think* it’s a 3 or 4K grit. For some reason, I took it off the base it came on which I believe was a muddy red color. I quite like the stone so I would like to know the brand. Thanks!

 

[Jarrod12345]

The markings look quite like a naniwa Chosera. I’m not sure about the Chosera line colours and grit ratings that many years ago as to if they were different. The stone also looks exactly like an old tojiro 4000 grit, which would explain your 4000 grit approximation

 

[More_Gyutos]

It sure looks a lot like that. Thank you.

 

[stringer]

Wondering if anyone can help ID this stone of mine. I bought it about 12 years ago I think I purchased it online either from Manny's Woodworking or Korin. I *think* it’s a 3 or 4K grit. For some reason, I took it off the base it came on which I believe was a muddy red color. I quite like the stone so I would like to know the brand. Thanks!View attachment 201619View attachment 201620

I was just typing that if I had to guess I would say old school naniwa/early Japanese synthetic but I see I was beaten to the punch

here's one I have similar. It's a lot more yellow-orange in person. Bad basement lighting on yellow shellacked diy wood workbench but the texture is the same.

 

[cotedupy]

Older King 4ks look exactly like this too. If it came from a woodworking store then that might be likely.

 

[Luftmensch]

The markings look quite like a naniwa Chosera

Yeah... maybe not Chosera... but definitely Naniwa. The snow white (8K) has the exact same stamp on the side:

[image from Sharpening Supplies]


Im guessing it its the IE-0400 Chemical Finishing Stone. You can find a KKF page on it here (sort of). @JBroida says it was a precursor to Chosera. I have the Snow White (Junpaku) and it certainly is 'Chosera-like'. My Snow White crazes like your stone. My Snow White also loads quickly (as it looks like your stone has). I believe the Snow White was popularised in wood planing competitions (kezuroukai). Given it had a reputation in woodworking circles, perhaps you purchased it from Manny's Woodworking?

Speculation here: if Naniwa designed the IE-0400 and Snow White as a progression for tools, your stone *might* be a wee bit harder than an equivalent Chosera. Don't take this as definitive truth though. In my experience, the Snow White feels more like a high grit Suehiro Gokumyo than a Chosera. My max Chosera is 5K though (which I havent used all that much!)...

The IE-0400 doesnt seem common anymore. I am not sure if that is an export market thing (Japan vs international)... or just that the 4000 segment has a lot of competition - including from the Chosera & Superstone lines. Or perhaps retailers are just trying to sell old stock!?

 

[stringer]

Yeah... maybe not Chosera... but definitely Naniwa. The snow white (8K) has the exact same stamp on the side:

View attachment 201750
[image from Sharpening Supplies]


Im guessing it its the IE-0400 Chemical Finishing Stone. You can find a KKF page on it here (sort of). @JBroida says it was a precursor to Chosera. I have the Snow White (Junpaku) and it certainly is 'Chosera-like'. My Snow White crazes like your stone. My Snow White also loads quickly (as it looks like your stone has). I believe the Snow White was popularised in wood planing competitions (kezuroukai). Given it had a reputation in woodworking circles, perhaps you purchased it from Manny's Woodworking?

Speculation here: if Naniwa designed the IE-0400 and Snow White as a progression for tools, your stone *might* be a wee bit harder than an equivalent Chosera. Don't take this as definitive truth though. In my experience, the Snow White feels more like a high grit Suehiro Gokumyo than a Chosera. My max Chosera is 5K though (which I havent used all that much!)...

The IE-0400 doesnt seem common anymore. I am not sure if that is an export market thing (Japan vs international)... or just that the 4000 segment has a lot of competition - including from the Chosera & Superstone lines. Or perhaps retailers are just trying to sell old stock!?

That's what mine is above too I think. Naniwa chemical or maybe naniwa lobster. But very old. Ebay snag. There's a reason they are never recommended even though they are available for like 1/2 of the price of newer tech. And that is because the newer tech is much much better. I've tried to use it for a lot of different knives and it's not useful for me. I can't speak much to polishing or single bevels or tools. But I can use pretty much any stone I've tried (hundreds) and I would rather use a $3 Chinese SiC brick. Or even just a brick would be better. I have tried a couple chosera stones and they are much better behaving. I actually really like super stones, you just have to clean them off constantly. But this stone doesn't work. The grit forms a paste that clumps around the bevel and prevents the steel from making contact with the stone. They are definitely harder than the super stones I have. I don't own a chosera but they usually get described as middle of the road. With suehiro/king soakers on the soft end and Shapton glass more on the hard end. This stone is more on the Shapton glass hard end. Flushing the stone constantly with water helps but the edge is neither fine nor toothy. And the residue still sticks no matter what you do impeding progress and leading to a lengthy and dangerous cleanup session while you try and get the crud off of the edge. If you soak the stone it crazes like crazy after it dries. This is one that sits in the pile of shame that I would be hesitant to gift for free to my worst enemy because no one deserves that kind of pain. So give it a shot but I wouldn't expect much if it anything like the one I have. Or maybe I am just getting old and cranky.

 

[More_Gyutos]

Interesting, mine does not get muddy or sticky, just a clean, smooth polishing feeling. I don’t have any grit near it to compare it to. Closest I have is Shapton Glass 2k. It obviously does craze though. Not sure if that will affect my edge negatively. It hasn’t seemed to in the past.

 

[Grayswandir]

That's what mine is above too I think. Naniwa chemical or maybe naniwa lobster. But very old. Ebay snag. There's a reason they are never recommended even though they are available for like 1/2 of the price of newer tech. And that is because the newer tech is much much better. I've tried to use it for a lot of different knives and it's not useful for me. I can't speak much to polishing or single bevels or tools. But I can use pretty much any stone I've tried (hundreds) and I would rather use a $3 Chinese SiC brick. Or even just a brick would be better. I have tried a couple chosera stones and they are much better behaving. I actually really like super stones, you just have to clean them off constantly. But this stone doesn't work. The grit forms a paste that clumps around the bevel and prevents the steel from making contact with the stone. They are definitely harder than the super stones I have. I don't own a chosera but they usually get described as middle of the road. With suehiro/king soakers on the soft end and Shapton glass more on the hard end. This stone is more on the Shapton glass hard end. Flushing the stone constantly with water helps but the edge is neither fine nor toothy. And the residue still sticks no matter what you do impeding progress and leading to a lengthy and dangerous cleanup session while you try and get the crud off of the edge. If you soak the stone it crazes like crazy after it dries. This is one that sits in the pile of shame that I would be hesitant to gift for free to my worst enemy because no one deserves that kind of pain. So give it a shot but I wouldn't expect much if it anything like the one I have. Or maybe I am just getting old and cranky.

Is crazing that cracked ice look on top of the stone in your photo? I have a Naniwa Traditional 6k that does the same thing and it bugs the hell out of me. I just recently lapped it with an Atoma#1200 and it seems to have remedied the crazing on the side I'm using right now. The other side is still screwed up looking. Is it just a cosmetic issue, or can it cause sharpening problems down the road?

 

[stringer]

Is crazing that cracked ice look on top of the stone in your photo? I have a Naniwa Traditional 6k that does the same thing and it bugs the hell out of me. I just recently lapped it with an Atoma#1200 and it seems to have remedied the crazing on the side I'm using right now. The other side is still screwed up looking. Is it just a cosmetic issue, or can it cause sharpening problems down the road?

yes that is crazing. it doesn't affect sharpening that much but it is a sign that the stone could fall apart. snow whites in particular are known for crazing up and falling apart I think. although I don't have personal experience.

 

[More_Gyutos]

Mine isn’t solved by flattening. And yeah, seems like it might just get worse and break up in time. Reminds me old guitars and how you see that crazing effect in their paint When it gets old and crackly.

 

[stringer]

Interesting, mine does not get muddy or sticky, just a clean, smooth polishing feeling. I don’t have any grit near it to compare it to. Closest I have is Shapton Glass 2k. It obviously does craze though. Not sure if that will affect my edge negatively. It hasn’t seemed to in the past.

I could see maybe if you were just using it to final sweeping strokes deburr after doing the heavy lifting with something coarser that it could be alright. Any time I went to scrubbing motion with it I would get the edge plaster. Not really mud, more clingy and plastic feeling. Like a warm crayon. Or the residue that gets on your blade after you hit a freshly pasted crox strop.

 

[Grayswandir]

Usually lapping doesn't solve the issue, but I decided to lap the other side, which had some crazing, but wasn't as bad as the top side. Apparently Naniwa has had a lot of problems with their stones in recent years. I don't know if they've fixed the issue or not. I bought the traditional because I needed a 6k and it was relatively cheap. If I had known I could have bought a Shapton Kuromaku for a little less money, I would have went that route instead. Thanks for clarifying the issue, I had heard the term being used many times and figured it was that funky cracked ice look, but I never knew for sure until now. If you read some reviews on Amazon, some of the Chosera stones were cracking.

 

[More_Gyutos]

I could see maybe if you were just using it to final sweeping strokes deburr after doing the heavy lifting with something coarser that it could be alright. Any time I went to scrubbing motion with it I would get the edge plaster. Not really mud, more clingy and plastic feeling. Like a warm crayon. Or the residue that gets on your blade after you hit a freshly pasted crox strop.

Yes, I have always used it after my old King stones which are 500 and 1500. Don’t think I’ve ever gone directly to this stone. But I have done my normal sharpening motion with edge trailing pressure on it and it didn’t feel sticky to me. The pressure I use is very light though. And come to think of it, I have not used it on carbon steel yet.