Naniwa Chosera 1000 cuts extremely slow

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superworrier

superworrier

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At least it feels like that. I flattened it a bit but maybe I didn't do the job and it comes glazed over?
It feels way way slower than my Shapton Pro 1000 (which is to be fair, much coarser in reality), but it even feels slower than my Rika I'd say.
 
Is it a new stone? Has it always behaved this way or has its behaviour changed?

I find that I needs a little mud to get it working quickly.
 
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superworrier said:
It’s always behaved this way The mud is not a bad suggestion. I do find it to be relatively thirsty
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Interesting. Is it sealed?

Mine is. I find that it needs a splash every few dozen strokes. I don't know if sealing affects the thirst or if this is just inter-stone variability.

Also, keep in mind that it behaves as a circa 1500 JIS stone. Shapton Pro 1K is much coarser.
 
superworrier said:
Mine is unsealed. Did you seal it like you would a JNAT? If sealing affects it, it would be reasonable to assume the base has similar effects.
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Sealed with spray on marine lacquer. The sides. Obviously the base is already "sealed"

As I said, I don't know if this is at all relevant. More likely inter-stone variability?
 
superworrier said:
At least it feels like that. I flattened it a bit but maybe I didn't do the job and it comes glazed over?
It feels way way slower than my Shapton Pro 1000 (which is to be fair, much coarser in reality), but it even feels slower than my Rika I'd say.
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Do you clean metal build up on the stone after sharpening? My first stone is Naniwa super stone 1000 (15 years ago) and sold them. After years of learning I think I know why my first stone Naniwa SS is slower. Maybe because I didn't clean them after sharpening and the metal build up clogged my whetstone. Well 15 years ago I was just a rookie who started learning how to sharpen a knife. Not much video on how to Sharpen a knife and maintain you whetstone on YouTube back then.
 
What type of steel were you sharpening?
 
I'd echo what other people have said - Naniwas (both SS and Pro) seem to work a little higher than their rating in comparison to other stones. And the Pros certainly need a bit of time to warm up and get going.

Though none of the range that I've used have been particularly quick tbh. I don't get them at all. Throw it away and buy a Cerax ;).
 
Sharpening mostly very hard simple Hitachi carbon steels If it has a reputation for slow cutting maybe that’s just how it is? I just ordered a bester 1200 I don’t know if it’s the fastest but it seems it’s compared with the Rika 5k which I love
 
superworrier said:
At least it feels like that. I flattened it a bit but maybe I didn't do the job and it comes glazed over?
It feels way way slower than my Shapton Pro 1000 (which is to be fair, much coarser in reality), but it even feels slower than my Rika I'd say.
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It's the only one of the Chosera / NP series I haven't used, so take my remarks with more than a grain of salt. Some individual stones come with a outher layer, a crust, that hinders freeing abrasives. One out of ten or so. The stones are told to be sawed out of a large one, and the ones that form the upper outher layer of the block tend to start by being inert. Remove the crusty outher layer on your stone with an Atoma or coarse sandpaper and it should start working as meant. Not much has to be removed. You don't start with losing a millimetre or so.
The NP are even denser than the Choseras, with some tendency to glazing, especially when used dry. Same solution.
Apart from that, they aren't Splash&Go like the Shaptons. They benefit from being wetted on the upper side and staying so for a few minutes before you start.
 
Since you flattened it, I'm going for 'its glazed'.

Before I knew what I was doing (never heared of this place), I had a chosera 600 (still have and use).
It all started as a very good stone. Then, after a few knives I used the nagura (which came with the chosera) on the stone to try to make a mud.
When I started with a knive, it felt like I ruined the stone. It was very slick, no teeth left. It wouldn't cut steel anymore (so it felt to me back then).
At that time I thought the nagura particles/slurry filled up the the stone, but now I know it was just glazed (flattened the mountain peaks of the chosera).

After using SiC powder, it was all good again.

If you have SiC, try that first. I you haven't got some, buy it and try that first 🤡
 
It would be fair to say the Choseras are medium speed or maybe slightly slower stones even adjusted for grit rating ( their 1K is more like a 1.5k for example ). I also think they work better on softer stainless than hard carbon.
The Bester 1.2k is a lot faster and more like an 800 or 1K grit wise. It is however a soaker and will load up if you try to treat it like a short soaker. Give it 20 minutes and its good to go.
 
branwell said:
It would be fair to say the Choseras are medium speed or maybe slightly slower stones even adjusted for grit rating ( their 1K is more like a 1.5k for example ). I also think they work better on softer stainless than hard carbon.
The Bester 1.2k is a lot faster and more like an 800 or 1K grit wise. It is however a soaker and will load up if you try to treat it like a short soaker. Give it 20 minutes and its good to go.
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I plan to permasoak.

Actually I properly flattened it a bit the other day and it felt amazing on cheap stainless
 
superworrier said:
I plan to permasoak.

Actually I properly flattened it a bit the other day and it felt amazing on cheap stainless
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Permasoaking your Chosera is probably the worst thing you may do. I won't survive. Once the inner part of a magnesia-bound stone got wet and stays so it starts to disintegrate and swallow. The tension it causes will make a Chosera to break.
 
branwell said:
It would be fair to say the Choseras are medium speed or maybe slightly slower stones even adjusted for grit rating ( their 1K is more like a 1.5k for example ). I also think they work better on softer stainless than hard carbon.
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Take care with sweeping statements about entire series: at this level, be it Choseras, Shapton Pros or Glass, every stone has a very different character. Hard to find more difference than between two stones of the same series who are close in grit size, say a Chosera 600 and a 800, or a 2k and 3k. I wouldn't call any of the Choseras slow, but indeed, we first have to correct for the grit size. A Shapton Pro 2k is very close to the Chosera 800 in its end result, but I've used the 800 to thin a Global, in times where I didn't have any coarser stone. I wouldn't even think about trying the same with the Shapton. Perhaps the Chosera 1k which I don't know is the exception who proves the rule.
 
the naniwa pro 800 and shapton pro 1k is almost the exact same speed imo.
same with the 2k pros.

while the 1k naniwa is no speed demon its not very slow either, its a messy stone though.
of course you could have gotten a defective stone.

in general 1k stones are not that fast. if you want faster get a 200-500.
 
inferno said:
the naniwa pro 800 and shapton pro 1k is almost the exact same speed imo.
same with the 2k pros.

while the 1k naniwa is no speed demon its not very slow either, its a messy stone though.
of course you could have gotten a defective stone.

in general 1k stones are not that fast. if you want faster get a 200-500.
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TBH when I mean slow I mean slower than SP1k. I consider SP1k relatively fast
 
I really like Naniwa stones, but I experience them as the crankiest synthetics I own. Some steels feel awful on naniwas, others feel ok, but it takes forever (ok not forever, but it takes longer) to get good results. The surface glazes and I get annoyed.
The exception in my experience is low alloy carbon steels: for most of them Naniwas are simply great, the 1k too. Or that’s What I think.
 
superworrier said:
TBH when I mean slow I mean slower than SP1k. I consider SP1k relatively fast
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it is a fair bit slower than the shapton for sure. the shapton is a coarser stone. I gave mine away because it felt too slow for a 1k.
the 1k naniwa pro is just a tiny bit faster than the shapton pro 2k. and the shapton pro 2k produce a much sharper edge.

the 800 and 2k are different. those are more on par with the shaptons in speed. i think the 800 is a much better stone than the 1k.
 
How are you flattening your stone? I have a worn out DMT extra coarse for flattening my coarser stones - mostly my Chosera 400. The 400 feels like total crap after flattening and only really livens up after using the nagura on it.
I find most of my synthetic stones benefit from a quick nagura scrub after flattening with a diamond stone.
 
northside said:
How are you flattening your stone? I have a worn out DMT extra coarse for flattening my coarser stones - mostly my Chosera 400. The 400 feels like total crap after flattening and only really livens up after using the nagura on it.
I find most of my synthetic stones benefit from a quick nagura scrub after flattening with a diamond stone.
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What happened exactly to the 400? Has it got glazed? A rough surface should be no problem.
 
Benuser said:
What happened exactly to the 400? Has it got glazed? A rough surface should be no problem.
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It feels very glazed and dull after flattening with my ancient DMT stone. The DMT i'm using is very old though, so it's expected. I'm wondering if that is some of the effect that OP may be coming across.
I keep a fresh 600 Atoma for my finer stones and suita.
 
Yep, my pro400 (same as chosera) glazes aswell after flattening with a stone.
SiC powder makes it flat and rough, try that.

But it stays only that rough for a few minutes
 
I have the NP400 NP1000 and NP3000 and they do glaze up a bit if I have them flattened and clean with just a little bit of water. Creating some mud helps out big time. Increases the speed and the swarf get's in the mud in stead of glazing up the stone.

I usually sharpen with the mud, clean the stone and then some light pressure deburring on a clean stone
 
inferno said:
the naniwa pro 800 and shapton pro 1k is almost the exact same speed imo.
same with the 2k pros.

while the 1k naniwa is no speed demon its not very slow either, its a messy stone though.
of course you could have gotten a defective stone.

in general 1k stones are not that fast. if you want faster get a 200-500.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is probably the best bet. If your using a mid grit, speed likely isn't a giant issue.

One of my all time favorite mid grit stones is the king 1.2k and that thing definitely isn't going to be the fastest on the market. But I dont need to it be.
 
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