need a midgrit polisher (synth Aoto, natural Aoto, others?)

[Choppin]

So I'm looking for a polishing stone to use right after my Gesshin 600*. Ideally this would be my final polishing stone for some knives - I'm looking for a decent working finish, something that erases the coarser scratches and leaves a uniform pattern. Something on the higher end of midgrit stones would be ideal (like 3-5k?). Natural preferred.

Soft and muddy is what I'm looking for, just like the Gesshin 600. My knives are mostly carbon, double bevel, and convex ground. Both clad and monosteel. So I need something that polishes well that convexity.

Progression is thinning with Debado 180 or Shapton 500 to get the geometry mostly right, then Gesshin 600 for a nice polish base, then this stone to follow up. I'm looking at the following:

- JNS synth Aoto. Not sure if the red or blue version?
- JKI synth Aoto
- natural Aoto
- other naturals?

Any ideas, recommendations? Again, natural is preferred. I just love the polishing feel on them.

Thanks!


*if you are not familiar with the Gesshin 600, it's basically a [much] improved version of the King 800 - soft, muddy, fast, easy to use and leaves a nice finish more like 800-1000 grit, very consistent.

PS: I'm ok using a synth as a bridge and then jumping to a natural... might be wiser after reading some of your advice here

 

[Choppin]

PS: soft and muddy is relative - for naturals, anything lv3-3.5 or so is fine. It doesn’t need to be a Monzento-style total mud bath. Although if such a stone exists in the 3k grit range, I’d be happy to take it.

 

[OkayMode]

I haven’t used a Gesshin 600 but I wouldn’t want to jump from anything lower than a 1k to my JNS red synth Aoto personally. I tried it once from a Morihei 500 as an experiment and it took ages.

 

[Choppin]

I haven’t used a Gesshin 600 but I wouldn’t want to jump from anything lower than a 1k to my JNS red synth Aoto personally. I tried it once from a Morihei 500 as an experiment and it took ages.

thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

but the Gesshin 600’s resulting polish is more like 800-1000 grit. I’ve jumped from it to the Gesshin 6k resinoid for instance and it works well. (the 6k is quite fast though)

 

[harken]

Very curious about the JKI Jinzo Aoto performance as well.

I have also had fantastic performance from my Ouka 3k as a even hazy polisher with lots of mud. Lots of folks seem to like the Morihei 4k too.

 

[NickMinton]

JNS Red Aoto is very muddy and a lot of people use it for Kasumi

 

[labor of love]

Gesshin 1200

 

[user 16756]

if you absolutely insist on jumping from Gesshin 600 my suggestion is to stick with synths.

even a natsuya is going to be better suited to something considerably finer IME unless you dont care about refining the core steel at all.

 

[Choppin]

@labor of love @tcmx3 I was considering using another synth after the Gesshin 600 and then moving to a natural (Aoto, Natsuya, etc). This would probably be wiser now that I think about it... maybe using the Gesshin 1200 as a bridge.

 

[labor of love]

@labor of love @tcmx3 I was considering using another synth after the Gesshin 600 and then moving to a natural (Aoto, Natsuya, etc). This would probably be wiser now that I think about it... maybe using the Gesshin 1200 as a bridge.

Plenty of people around here have greater knowledge than me so take my recommendation lightly. Gesh 1200 is a fave of mine though. Didn’t have any problems jumping to 2k or 3k synth after it. I’m too cheap to ever really invest in a Jnat progression but maybe one day I’ll seek out a finisher.

 

[Choppin]

Plenty of people around here have greater knowledge than me so take my recommendation lightly. Gesh 1200 is a fave of mine though. Didn’t have any problems jumping to 2k or 3k synth after it. I’m too cheap to ever really invest in a Jnat progression but maybe one day I’ll seek out a finisher.

I love Gesshin stones, I have the 600, 4k soaker and 6k resinoid now. Wouldn't mind another one.

I wonder how the JNS and JKI synth Aoto compare to natural Aoto (I know there's a lot of variation)

 

[cotedupy]

I’d get a King DL 1200, and one of these, if ET has any in atm.

Tajima Nakatoishi Review


The Tajima is one of the easiest and best mid to upper-mid grit polishing stones I’ve used.

 

[KenjiF]

I can jump from my gesshin 2k soaker to aizu w mud. Not super clean but decent working polish. If I’m going to burnish with aizu I’ll take it up to 3k chosera.

I agree with @tcmx3 that a synth finish will prob be better in that range. You can get a pretty banging Kasumi of number of 1k synth stones. Shapton glass 1k comes to mind (but I haven’t used one in ages)

 

[Choppin]

I’d get a King DL 1200, and one of these, if ET has any in atm.

Tajima Nakatoishi Review


The Tajima is one of the easiest and best mid to upper-mid grit polishing stones I’ve used.

Thanks Oli, I just read your Tajima post - sounds exactly what I’m looking for. I had dismissed it when I browsed Atelier’s website because of the hardness, but if it’s fit to polish a Mazaki (I’m assuming somewhat convex and inconsistent bevels) it should be good for my convex bevels.

 

[cotedupy]

Thanks Oli, I just read your Tajima post - sounds exactly what I’m looking for. I had dismissed it when I browsed Atelier’s website because of the hardness, but if it’s fit to polish a Mazaki (I’m assuming somewhat convex and inconsistent bevels) it should be good for my convex bevels.

Yeah an interesting one; it is hard, but not in the same way that awasedo are hard, because it's a different type of rock. It's actually very easy to use to use, with an extremely consistent scratch pattern, and you couldn't kinda 'scuff' the jigane even if you tried.

Bear in mind I'm not a polishing expert, and don't have much patience, but I'd call this a pretty nice working aesthetic finish after just a coupla minutes. Especially given it's a Maz...

 

[Choppin]

Yeah an interesting one; it is hard, but not in the same way that awasedo are hard, because it's a different type of rock. It's actually very easy to use to use, with an extremely consistent scratch pattern, and you couldn't kinda 'scuff' the jigane even if you tried.

Bear in mind I'm not a polishing expert, and don't have much patience, but I'd call this a pretty nice working aesthetic finish after just a coupla minutes. Especially given it's a Maz...

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looks great! do you remember which stone was used right before the Tajima, on that Maz? I assume it's the King 1200 you mentioned?

 

[Nemo]

FWIW, JNS Blue Aoto is hard and is the opposite of muddy.

Leaves a nice contrasty finish though.

 

[refcast]

Belgian blue?

Aoto can be all over the place. In a kinda good way haha. Ogourayama, ouchi and softer finisher jnats are good. Washita is good.

I've had like 15-20 aoto so far and they vary a lot. If they have a dusty pasty or velvety look to them, then they are usually softer, even if blue. If they are deep glossy blue they are hard and don't slurry much. Red and tan slurry a lot.

Khao men works too

 

[Choppin]

Belgian blue?

Aoto can be all over the place. In a kinda good way haha. Ogourayama, ouchi and softer finisher jnats are good. Washita is good.

I've had like 15-20 aoto so far and they vary a lot. If they have a dusty pasty or velvety look to them, then they are usually softer, even if blue. If they are deep glossy blue they are hard and don't slurry much. Red and tan slurry a lot.

Khao men works too

Thanks, appreciate the Aoto visual tips.

I just got a BBW but haven’t tried it yet for polishing. Will do.

JKI usually carries some Ouchi. I’ll message Jon as well.

 

[Nemo]

BBW is not a bad polisher...

BUT.

It's hard and definitely not a muddy stone.

 

[refcast]

@Nemo Ahhh maybe my Belgian blue was softer somehow. It was purplish from sharpening supplies.

 

[WellLikedTurtle]

In terms of synths Morihei 4k leaves a very nice finish on cladding, more matte and contrast than Gesshin speckled 6k in my experience. Morihei can be a bit on the slow side when it comes to removing scratches from mid grits though. JNS red aoto has better speed and very even finish, but the clad will remain a bit scratchy.

I've gone 1k -> JNS red -> soft finisher jnat with no problems, but that doesn't get me the cleanest core steel.

 

[Nemo]

@Nemo Ahhh maybe my Belgian blue was softer somehow. It was purplish from sharpening supplies.

Very interesting. I guess it makes sense that there are hard versions and soft versions.

Mine came direct from AC.

More blue than purple, but I guess a little purplish. The swarf is quite purple.

 

[Choppin]

ok, change of plans based on your feedback.

I’ll try using my King 1200 after the Gesshin 600 and then moving to a Cerax/Ouka 3k (I need to buy that one but I found the smaller version available for a good price). Then I should be in a better position to jump to soft naturals. Still need to grab a midgrit natural but I’ll try this sequence first while I look for one.

Will post back here. Thanks guys!

 

[Steve56]

Has anyone tried Mikawa nagura slurry on a synth for polishing? I know that Sakimoto-san does for sharpening, but I wonder if it changes the polish. I haven’t tried metal polishing on a synth with Mikawa slurry yet, but there are some advantages to sharpening with it.

 

[lesslemming]

Has anyone tried Mikawa nagura slurry on a synth for polishing? I know that Sakimoto-san does for sharpening, but I wonder if it changes the polish. I haven’t tried metal polishing on a synth with Mikawa slurry yet, but there are some advantages to sharpening with it.

I sometimes rub my Shapton GS 4k with a soft uchigumori or a Mikawa Nagura to get some slurry going before the blade gets too burnished from the initial cutting power of the GS 4k. It helps maintaining the contrast and has helped me keeping the cladding scratch-free from pulling iron or similar.
But most of the time I just go with a GS 2k and jump from there. Works just fine for me.
Tcmx3 is right, though. If you want a really clean core, you might want to go finer on synths before you go to naturals.

So yeah, sure, why not? You can use a Mikawa Nagura on a synth. I mean it depends on what you're trying to do.
Don't expect it to adopt the qualities of a Mikawa Bench stone, though. It will just behave like a muddy version of the synth, IME.

In regards to synths before the natural: I personally stay clear of the coarser naturals. Synths get the job done reliably.
You can check out this thread for some cool examples of synths. People usually write the name of the stone and an image.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/the-grandiose-synth-kasumi-thread.51860/