Need advice on some equipment for: 1. easier burr removal 2. knife edge maintenance 3. flattening

[Cifer]

Hello everyone,

First a disclaimer: I currently live in Germany, so any products recommended should ideally be available and not overpriced here.

1. As you might know from another thread I'm still learning to sharpen. I can get Western knives to shave and cut newspaper cleanly off a Shapton Pro 1000 now, but I can definitely tell that there is still a burr left that's hindering cutting performance. I can't get close to push cutting newspaper at a 90 degree angle, for example. It's also not that easy for me to deburr to a level where the knives shave and cut newspaper in the first place.

I know it's possible to get an edge that's quite a bit sharper than I have even off concrete blocks, but my main aim is simply to have a knive that's sharp enough to kitchen cutting tasks without a lot of effort. I'll probably not sharpen frequently enough to maintain the muscle memory for perfect deburring on one stone either. Therefore I would like to purchase a strop or a higher grit stone to make the final stages of burr removal easier. I know the edge has to be sharp off the 1000 stone and burr removal should be done on every stone, so I'm not planning to buy another stone or a strop as an easy fix but rather to finish off the burr after minimizing it on the 1000.

2. On top of that I would like something that allows me to refresh an edge without losing too much material, especially if my pressure control isn't the best due to infrequent sharpening.

I know both a strop or a stone would be able to perform both of the tasks mentioned above. And I know that it's partly (or even mostly) preference. However, I'm not sure how to decide between the two, and which exact stone or stropping base and compound to get. Most recommendations I've seen are mostly aimed at American buyers, and I'm not sure how much compounds vary in quality even if they have the same description.

3. I need something to flatten the Shapton. One side is fine and will need a few touchups now and then. But the other one needs maybe 1mm of material removed because I used way too much pressure a year ago when first learning how to sharpen. I've tried 120 grit siliciumcarbide sandpaper on granite, but it doesn't work well at all. I've gone through about 6 sheets so far and barely any surface has been removed.

What is the most effective way to abrade a lot of material from hard stones like the Shapton? I've seen people say diamond plates don't make sense for casual sharpeners - as well as actually not being as good as SiC powder on glass or granite - while others have said they're both the most effective and most convenient.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Benuser]

How do you perform the deburring?

 

[stringer]

Hello everyone,

First a disclaimer: I currently live in Germany, so any products recommended should ideally be available and not overpriced here.

1. As you might know from another thread I'm still learning to sharpen. I can get Western knives to shave and cut newspaper cleanly off a Shapton Pro 1000 now, but I can definitely tell that there is still a burr left that's hindering cutting performance. I can't get close to push cutting newspaper at a 90 degree angle, for example. It's also not that easy for me to deburr to a level where the knives shave and cut newspaper in the first place.

I know it's possible to get an edge that's quite a bit sharper than I have even off concrete blocks, but my main aim is simply to have a knive that's sharp enough to kitchen cutting tasks without a lot of effort. I'll probably not sharpen frequently enough to maintain the muscle memory for perfect deburring on one stone either. Therefore I would like to purchase a strop or a higher grit stone to make the final stages of burr removal easier. I know the edge has to be sharp off the 1000 stone and burr removal should be done on every stone, so I'm not planning to buy another stone or a strop as an easy fix but rather to finish off the burr after minimizing it on the 1000.

2. On top of that I would like something that allows me to refresh an edge without losing too much material, especially if my pressure control isn't the best due to infrequent sharpening.

I know both a strop or a stone would be able to perform both of the tasks mentioned above. And I know that it's partly (or even mostly) preference. However, I'm not sure how to decide between the two, and which exact stone or stropping base and compound to get. Most recommendations I've seen are mostly aimed at American buyers, and I'm not sure how much compounds vary in quality even if they have the same description.

3. I need something to flatten the Shapton. One side is fine and will need a few touchups now and then. But the other one needs maybe 1mm of material removed because I used way too much pressure a year ago when first learning how to sharpen. I've tried 120 grit siliciumcarbide sandpaper on granite, but it doesn't work well at all. I've gone through about 6 sheets so far and barely any surface has been removed.

What is the most effective way to abrade a lot of material from hard stones like the Shapton? I've seen people say diamond plates don't make sense for casual sharpeners - as well as actually not being as good as SiC powder on glass or granite - while others have said they're both the most effective and most convenient.

Thanks a lot!

1. If you want to try stropping you don't have to buy anything. Denim, cardboard, copy paper, all work great for knives. For cardboard just lay it on the counter and strop on it. For denim or copy paper, wrap it around your sp1k and strop on it. Just a few strokes after sharpening can make a huge difference. More than a few strokes risks rounding your apex.

2. A ceramic rod works great for quick touchups. Or you could get a stone with a higher grit finish 2-4k and use that for final polishing and touchups. If you have good geometry off of the 1k then routinely touching it up on the finer stone will be a simple task.

3. An Atoma is probably the simplest solution and most expensive. A granite plate with SiC grit is the most effective and cheapest. It also creates a lot of mess and is probably overkill if you only have a few synthetic stones. (Synthetics are much softer than a lot of natural stones which can wear out an Atoma much more quickly)

My opinions only. YMMV

Best thing you can do is keep practicing. And don't worry about sharpening tests. Worry about performance in food.

 

[MrHiggins]

Stringer nailed it on all three of your queries, especially the utility of a ceramic rod for touch ups.

I'd only add that I've flattened stones using my garage's cement floor. If you have some smooth concrete around, it'll work just fine.

 

[Benuser]

If soft stainless Germans are concerned, stropping will only help to push all debris to one side where you may abrade it — with your stone. Never seen a burr getting removed with that steel by stropping only.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Hello everyone,

First a disclaimer: I currently live in Germany, so any products recommended should ideally be available and not overpriced here.

1. As you might know from another thread I'm still learning to sharpen. I can get Western knives to shave and cut newspaper cleanly off a Shapton Pro 1000 now, but I can definitely tell that there is still a burr left that's hindering cutting performance. I can't get close to push cutting newspaper at a 90 degree angle, for example. It's also not that easy for me to deburr to a level where the knives shave and cut newspaper in the first place.

I know it's possible to get an edge that's quite a bit sharper than I have even off concrete blocks, but my main aim is simply to have a knive that's sharp enough to kitchen cutting tasks without a lot of effort. I'll probably not sharpen frequently enough to maintain the muscle memory for perfect deburring on one stone either. Therefore I would like to purchase a strop or a higher grit stone to make the final stages of burr removal easier. I know the edge has to be sharp off the 1000 stone and burr removal should be done on every stone, so I'm not planning to buy another stone or a strop as an easy fix but rather to finish off the burr after minimizing it on the 1000.

2. On top of that I would like something that allows me to refresh an edge without losing too much material, especially if my pressure control isn't the best due to infrequent sharpening.

I know both a strop or a stone would be able to perform both of the tasks mentioned above. And I know that it's partly (or even mostly) preference. However, I'm not sure how to decide between the two, and which exact stone or stropping base and compound to get. Most recommendations I've seen are mostly aimed at American buyers, and I'm not sure how much compounds vary in quality even if they have the same description.

3. I need something to flatten the Shapton. One side is fine and will need a few touchups now and then. But the other one needs maybe 1mm of material removed because I used way too much pressure a year ago when first learning how to sharpen. I've tried 120 grit siliciumcarbide sandpaper on granite, but it doesn't work well at all. I've gone through about 6 sheets so far and barely any surface has been removed.

What is the most effective way to abrade a lot of material from hard stones like the Shapton? I've seen people say diamond plates don't make sense for casual sharpeners - as well as actually not being as good as SiC powder on glass or granite - while others have said they're both the most effective and most convenient.

Thanks a lot!

What's happening in your newspaper cuts and how are you verifying the burr? I second @Benuser's request because this really doesn't sound like a burr issue to me.

Edit: Have you ever tried holding the stone and swiping on it like people use a rod? Holding the stone strongly limits the pressure that you can apply while sharpening and you'll want to know that you can do this if you're going with a rod for touchups.

 

[Desert Rat]

What about a cheaper alternative to an Atoma?

 

[stringer]

What about a cheaper alternative to an Atoma?

Cheaper diamond plates can work. Some are better than others. They don't do as well with harder natural stones as atomas generally. But can work great with synthetics and softer naturals. If you don't use them that often then it's probably fine. One other thing is cheaper ones can shed diamonds. I don't really care but if you are into making stuff pretty it might concern you.

 

[Desert Rat]

Cheaper diamond plates can work. Some are better than others. They don't do as well with harder natural stones as atomas generally. But can work great with synthetics and softer naturals. If you don't use them that often then it's probably fine. One other thing is cheaper ones can shed diamonds. I don't really care but if you are into making stuff pretty it might concern you.

I need one to keep synthetic water stones flat, 500 to 4000 grit. What grit should I be using?

 

[Rangen]

I need one to keep synthetic water stones flat, 500 to 4000 grit. What grit should I be using?

It has surprised me how little that seems to matter.

Caveat: the diamond plates I use are very worn out, which appears to interfere not at all with using them to flatten synthetics.

 

[stringer]

I need one to keep synthetic water stones flat, 500 to 4000 grit. What grit should I be using?

Doesn't matter much because synthetic water stones are self slurrying. Whatever finish your diamonds puts on them will go away fast. And there is such variation between the different brands it's kind of pointless. I would say start coarse. If it is too coarse then break it in a little and it will be less coarse.

 

[mengwong]

I chamfered and flattened almost all my SGs today with an Atoma 140. I don’t have any other Atomæ. Worked fine.

SG 220 500 1k 2k 4k 8k

 

[Benuser]

I chamfered and flattened almost all my SGs today with an Atoma 140. I don’t have any other Atomæ. Worked fine.

SG 220 500 1k 2k 4k 8k

Would make a great, tight progression with SG-2/R2. Perhaps a 320 to start with.

 

[mengwong]

As a photographer I will instinctively buy any sequence that feels like f-stops.

And you get that lovely Migaki finish on the diamonds!

I didn’t Atoma my SG16k though, I use my NL-8 for that one.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

As a photographer I will instinctively buy any sequence that feels like f-stops.

And you get that lovely Migaki finish on the diamonds!

I didn’t Atoma my SG16k though, I use my NL-8 for that one.

How's the performance on the NL-8? These are some $400 in the US and I've never seen a reliable user report.

 

[mengwong]

In the hands of a professional polisher who would otherwise wear through multiple Atomas a year, the NL-8 and NL-10 are highly specialized tools with a solid economic argument.

In my hands, it is, TBH, a fetish object pursuant to a bit of retail therapy.

I’ll wear through a 140 grit atoma in a few weeks and I don’t see myself wearing through this guy anytime soon.

that one is the only diamond plate that I can use a slurry off as it doesn't drop diamonds.

spending $$$ on this plate makes more sense than replacing products like DMT or Atoma that serve the same purpose.

they are crazy expensive for most people.

I have an NL-10

I took microscope photos. I could compare with Atoma 140 and measure the diamonds, if there’s interest.

zoom

 

[azn_knives_4l]

In the hands of a professional polisher who would otherwise wear through multiple Atomas a year, the NL-8 and NL-10 are highly specialized tools with a solid economic argument.

In my hands, it is, TBH, a fetish object pursuant to a bit of retail therapy.

Thanks for this. I've thought about the NL-4 from time to time but never went for it because I already have the JKI personal sidewalk and likely won't wear that out in my lifetime. Completely different construction on the NL-8/NL-10 with the metallic bonded buttons and I think that's super cool.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thanks for this. I've thought about the NL-4 from time to time but never went for it because I already have the JKI personal sidewalk and likely won't wear that out in my lifetime. Completely different construction on the NL-8/NL-10 with the metallic bonded buttons and I think that's super cool.

I have an NL-4 and love it. I got a good deal on it. Will I spend the money on a new one when the time comes...? I just might but that seems a good ways off.

 

[Rangen]

For high-grit naturals, the NL-10 is great for raising slurry without imposing a pattern of lines on the stone. After break-in, you've basically got a flat metal surface in each button, with flush diamonds in it.

 

[Blademaster]

Hello everyone,

First a disclaimer: I currently live in Germany, so any products recommended should ideally be available and not overpriced here.

1. As you might know from another thread I'm still learning to sharpen. I can get Western knives to shave and cut newspaper cleanly off a Shapton Pro 1000 now, but I can definitely tell that there is still a burr left that's hindering cutting performance. I can't get close to push cutting newspaper at a 90 degree angle, for example. It's also not that easy for me to deburr to a level where the knives shave and cut newspaper in the first place.

I know it's possible to get an edge that's quite a bit sharper than I have even off concrete blocks, but my main aim is simply to have a knive that's sharp enough to kitchen cutting tasks without a lot of effort. I'll probably not sharpen frequently enough to maintain the muscle memory for perfect deburring on one stone either. Therefore I would like to purchase a strop or a higher grit stone to make the final stages of burr removal easier. I know the edge has to be sharp off the 1000 stone and burr removal should be done on every stone, so I'm not planning to buy another stone or a strop as an easy fix but rather to finish off the burr after minimizing it on the 1000.

2. On top of that I would like something that allows me to refresh an edge without losing too much material, especially if my pressure control isn't the best due to infrequent sharpening.

I know both a strop or a stone would be able to perform both of the tasks mentioned above. And I know that it's partly (or even mostly) preference. However, I'm not sure how to decide between the two, and which exact stone or stropping base and compound to get. Most recommendations I've seen are mostly aimed at American buyers, and I'm not sure how much compounds vary in quality even if they have the same description.

3. I need something to flatten the Shapton. One side is fine and will need a few touchups now and then. But the other one needs maybe 1mm of material removed because I used way too much pressure a year ago when first learning how to sharpen. I've tried 120 grit siliciumcarbide sandpaper on granite, but it doesn't work well at all. I've gone through about 6 sheets so far and barely any surface has been removed.

What is the most effective way to abrade a lot of material from hard stones like the Shapton? I've seen people say diamond plates don't make sense for casual sharpeners - as well as actually not being as good as SiC powder on glass or granite - while others have said they're both the most effective and most convenient.

Thanks a lot!

1. SP1000 is like a 700 grit stone, so i rate this as an upper medium-coarse stone. You can buy medium stone (1000 - 2000 grit) for deburring and finer finish. SP2000 is an option. You can use denim for stropping (to remove micro burr).

2. You can touch up/refresh the edge (realign micro bends on the edge) with your latest progression stone (usually with medium stone 1000-2000 or lower grit fine stone 3000-4000).

3. Try a decent Chinese made diamond stone, add 10 mmm black acrylic base with strong double tape. Use it for flattening the stone.

 

[Kawa]

If your last stone is a shapton pro 1000, which is coarser then 1000 in the experience of almost everyone here (I havent got one), I wouldnt buy a stop to follow that up.

I'm not the best sharpener around here, in my experience a 1000 gritt left over burr wont get any smaller on a strop only. Unless you put some coarse paste on it.

Others might succeed though.

 

[Kawa]

What about a cheaper alternative to an Atoma?

I have never used a real Atoma.

I have bought a suehiro 150/500 diamond lapping plate. I hoped this was a quality piece, since the brand has got some good stones. I'm not really happy with it. The 500 side seems to scratch more then the 150. The 150 leaves scratches in almost all my stones, but it works.

Im happy with my cheap 220 naniwa sic flattening stone, or loose sic. Yes it takes longer, but my stones arent crying afterwards.

 

[Rangen]

I have never used a real Atoma.

I have bought a suehiro 150/500 diamond lapping plate. I hoped this was a quality piece, since the brand has got some good stones. I'm not really happy with it. The 500 side seems to scratch more then the 150. The 150 leaves scratches in almost all my stones, but it works.

Im happy with my cheap 220 naniwa sic flattening stone, or loose sic. Yes it takes longer, but my stones arent crying afterwards.

Some vigorous break-in on metal may help that plate be less scratchy.

 

[Kawa]

Some vigorous break-in on metal may help that plate be less scratchy.

I might try something like that, Im not using it much right now.

What do you mean 'on metal'? Just work it on a simple metal plate as a 'polisher' for some time?

How about something like, working it on 220/400 sandpaper for a little time?

 

[Rangen]

I might try something like that, Im not using it much right now.

What do you mean 'on metal'? Just work it on a simple metal plate as a 'polisher' for some time?

How about something like, working it on 220/400 sandpaper for a little time?

Yes, anything steel ought to be good. I don't know whether sandpaper would work. My guess is that it would not, but I've not tried anything like that. The goal, I think, is to break off the sharp peaks of the individual diamonds. I wouldn't think sandpaper would be great at that, but who knows.

 

[aporigine]

I might try something like that, Im not using it much right now.

What do you mean 'on metal'? Just work it on a simple metal plate as a 'polisher' for some time?

How about something like, working it on 220/400 sandpaper for a little time?

The advantage of flat steel is that it will preferentially wear down the sticker-uppers.

 

[mengwong]

The “asperities”, he interjected, with some asperity.

(What an aspie.)

 

[aporigine]

The “asperities”, he interjected, with some asperity.

Thanks for sticking-upping for me! (sheds tear)

 

[Desert Rat]

Pretty sure Mengwong is bilingual, and I have no idea what he is saying most of the time.
Must be mixing English with some other language. Smart fella though.

 

[aporigine]

Pretty sure Mengwong is bilingual, and I have no idea what he is saying most of the time.
Must be mixing English with some other language. Smart fella though.

No; it parses cleanly to me — and is elegant word play; something on which I groove.