Need recommendations for a mid level Gyuto

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hititlong

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Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
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Location
SE Asia
Hi yall,

Newbie looking to upgrade deeper into this rabbit hole looking for recommendations here

LOCATION
What country are you in? Indonesia

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? GYUTO!

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? ~210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? Not really, always wanted to try a carbon steel knife

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? 250USD

KNIFE USE
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for? LOTS OF SWEET POTATOES, root veggies, slicing pork and beef, apples, pears, pineapples, general kitchen herbs and spices (garlic onion ginger)...and more sweet potatoes

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Tojiro DP 210mm Gyuto, Zwiling Henckels Intl 8" Chef Knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Pinch always

What cutting motions do you primarily use? I am historically a rock chopper, but consciously moving to a more push cutter

What improvements do you want from your current knife? My Tojiro DP is difficult to sharpen and loses its edge only after 2-3 days of use

Better aesthetics? Interested in Kurouchi, but no dealbreakers here

Comfort? No real preference on weight, would prefer balance point right at pinch grip or further forward

Ease of Use? Sharp strong edge to be used for a lot of root veggies (love sweet potatoes), less wedging to make onion prep bearable

Edge Retention? 1 to 2 weeks of everyday use


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? YES

Do you sharpen your own knives? YES

So far the ones that have caught my eye are the Makoto Kurosaki SG2 210, Takamura Migaki R2 210, Munetoshi AS KU 210, and..... the Kramer Carbon Euroline (yes this is slightly above my price range, but if its worth it, Im willing to compromise).

Also been mesmerized by some of the Murray Carter knives (but way above price range). Surprised to see that there's not much talk about them here tbh.

Lets hear it, folks!

Cheers
 
 
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+1 on Mazaki and Wakui. Two top class choices and knives that perform far higher than the price point.

I would lean slightly to Wakui if you're not used to beefier knives, as Mazaki can be a touch thiccc. I enjoy Mazaki and am not meaning to deter, but based on what you've written, I may go with Wakui as a smoother cutter.
 
I agree with Ashy and Elliot--especially the link where Ahsy wrote "BUY THIS!!!"

Sometimes there really are easy answers and actual solutions :)
 
Hey yall. Great responses so far.

Based on what Im reading, I actually wouldnt mind the Mazaki, given how it aggressively tapers into a sub 1mm tip thats good for onions.

So far, the main issue is the fact that KNS does not ship to Indonesia, Im afraid. Will have to look for these knives somewhere else.

So no marks on the Kramer/Carters huh? Lol.

@M1k3 - Yes, I havent heard a bad thing about these ANYWHERE. Problem is the handle, if Im gonna be spending money on knives, I wanna make sure they look significantly different from what I have now - that way I can just tell the missus that Im "trying something completely different" if I need to justify my purchase o_O
 
hititlong said:
Hey yall. Great responses so far.

Based on what Im reading, I actually wouldnt mind the Mazaki, given how it aggressively tapers into a sub 1mm tip thats good for onions.

So far, the main issue is the fact that KNS does not ship to Indonesia, Im afraid. Will have to look for these knives somewhere else.

So no marks on the Kramer/Carters huh? Lol.

@M1k3 - Yes, I havent heard a bad thing about these ANYWHERE. Problem is the handle, if Im gonna be spending money on knives, I wanna make sure they look significantly different from what I have now - that way I can just tell the missus that Im "trying something completely different" if I need to justify my purchase o_O
Click to expand...

"I'm trying something different, a laser."
 
M1k3 said:
"I'm trying something different, a laser."
Click to expand...
Have a feeling she wouldn't fall for that - have bought an actual laser engraving machine a while back

Anyways, just found out that KNS does ship to Indonesia - hmmm, pockets already feeling lighter as I'm typing here
 
My Tanaka has great food release on potatoes...That's not say I've tried any others...but others have commented on the good food release of the Tanaka.

For what it's worth I wouldn't consider a razor thin knife for what you want to do. Unless you have perfect technique...that is to say keeping the knife steady and straight all the time...thinner razor/laser knives...well they stink for cutting root veggies. You can do it...and it works for some but overall I'd use a more robust knife.

But a knife with a larger convex and thicker blade works better. I think Tanaka would put a smile to your face...good luck.
 
CutFingers said:
My Tanaka has great food release on potatoes...That's not say I've tried any others...but others have commented on the good food release of the Tanaka.

For what it's worth I wouldn't consider a razor thin knife for what you want to do. Unless you have perfect technique...that is to say keeping the knife steady and straight all the time...thinner razor/laser knives...well they stink for cutting root veggies. You can do it...and it works for some but overall I'd use a more robust knife.

But a knife with a larger convex and thicker blade works better. I think Tanaka would put a smile to your face...good luck.
Click to expand...

The food release on the Tanaka Nashijis is pretty good FOR A THINNER KNIFE. But a well ground thicker knife will have better food release. But it may wedge more. Tat is to say, there is a tradeoff between thinness (resistance to wedging In tall hard foods) and food release (resistance to stiction in wet foods). This is because good food release is produced by grind features (such as convexity or S-grinds) which take up space, requiring a thicker blade. Some grinds are more efficeint at extracting every bit of food release from a particular thickness but in the food release stakes, "there is no replacement for displacement". There is a continuum from very thin (laser) knives to very thick food release workhorse grinds. Note that many traditional Western knives are both thick and have a flat grind, so have poor food release and wedge a lot.

My experience with thinner knives varies a bit from yours. I find that lasers slide through hard root vegetables like sweet potato and turnip with ease. Where I find they struggle (and where a thicker knife excells) is in wet foods like potato, eggplant and zucchini.

OP, I guess that you need to decide where on this spectrum (laser-middleweight-workhorse) your preferences lie.

Note that many knives from Sanjo have a significant taper, so they are thicker at the heel end, thinner at the tip. This means that the heel half of the knife can perform as a thicker knife and the tip end performs as a thinner knife. The thin tip is also very useful in onion.
 
On the Mazakis- great thicker middleweight with significant Sanjo taper. Food release is good for it's thickness. Very easy to sharpen White2. The main issue for you is that the cladding on mine is quite reactive so if it is humid where you are you may have to be very careful.

On the Wakuis- There seem to be a few grinds available. The one commonly commented on is quite a thin grind. Mine (a tsuchime (hammered) from KNS) is a much thicker grind with excellent food release. I am not sure about the non tsuchime Wakuis from KNS. I seem to recall James saying that they were a little thicker than the Tanaka Nashijis which would make them a middlewight, I guess. The white2 steel is also easy to sharpen and they are stainless clad. I had my handle upgraded to an ebony handle.

It would also be worth looking at Yoshikane's SKD. Mine is the Tsuchime and looks and performs quite similar to my Wakui. It's a stainless clad semistainless which is almost carbon like to sharpen but much more resistant to corrosion. The edge retention is pretty good too.
 
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Nemo said:
The food release on the Tanaka Nashijis is pretty good FOR A THINNER KNIFE. But a well ground thicker knife will have better food release. But it may wedge more. Tat is to say, there is a tradeoff between thinness (resistance to wedging In tall hard foods) and food release (resistance to stiction in wet foods). This is because good food release is produced by grind features (such as convexity or S-grinds) which take up space, requiring a thicker blade. Some grinds are more efficeint at extracting every bit of food release from a particular thickness but in the food release stakes, "there is no replacement for displacement". There is a continuum from very thin (laser) knives to very thick food release workhorse grinds. Note that many traditional Western knives are both thick and have a flat grind, so have poor food release and wedge a lot.

My experience with thinner knives varies a bit from yours. I find that lasers slide through hard root vegetables like sweet potato and turnip with ease. Where I find they struggle (and where a thicker knife excells) is in wet foods like potato, eggplant and zucchini.

OP, I guess that you need to decide where on this spectrum (laser-middleweight-workhorse) your preferences lie.

Note that many knives from Sanjo have a significant taper, so they are thicker at the heel end, thinner at the tip. This means that the heel half of the knife can perform as a thicker knife and the tip end performs as a thinner knife. The thin tip is also very useful in onion.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the elaboration, I understand that this is a dilemma I'm facing re: wanting thin knives vs the need to handle hard root vegetables often. This is why I'm intrigued with the so called Sanjo grind where I can, to an extent, have a bit of both worlds.

However, when it comes down to it, I'd rather venture on the thinner (but not flexing all over) side of things, just to fully get the "japanese thin" knife experience. The recommendations here are all very very useful so far.

Some of you have PMed with details also - will get back to you!
 
hititlong said:
Thanks for the elaboration, I understand that this is a dilemma I'm facing re: wanting thin knives vs the need to handle hard root vegetables often.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: A thin knife will go through hard root veggies (think tall carrot, sweet potato) easily. It may struggle a little in wetter foods (think potato, zucchini).

As you suggested, if a knife is thin all of the way up to the spine, it may flex a little, so you may need to be careful with your technique in tall, hard veggies (especially splitting pumpkins). There are certainly very thin behind the edge knives with a more robust spine (I'm thinking knives like Kurosaki Shizuku and Jikko Akebono/ Akatsuki). These will wedge a little more in very tall foods but don't flex as much.
 
+1 Yoshikane, Mazaki, Tanaka, Takamura Pro if you can cop one. I’m impressed with how all of these go through veg like that without splitting. Takamura for edge retention, Yoshi SKD for stropping back to razor sharp, Tanaka is closer to laserish, and Mazaki is perhaps the most versatile.

Can’t speak to Wakui but it’s always mentioned along with the above.
 
One thing I'd add to consider here is heel height. I love the Yoshikane heat treat and steel; it is excellent. However, it is hard to find a Yoshikane that is 50mm at the heel in a 210mm knife. Mazaki has that heel height no problem.
 
Hey guys thanks for chiming in - although I have medium hands, I do actually appreciate good heel height, as I feel that it helps me feel more uncluttered whenever I have a full cutting board.

For the knife haven't decided on which yet, but have decided that I wanna go for thin, thus leaving the Wakui White KU, Makoto Kurosaki SG2, and Takamura Migaki R2 (too bad the handle is not wa) - and the ever enticing stretch target of one of the Carter Muteki gyutos available at carbonknifeco.com right now. I've been browsing around and have found differing opinions on the flex of these laser/pseudo-lasers. How much flex is safely reasonable for hard root veggies?

@Nemo, thanks for dropping so much knowledge!
 
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